new boiler water spittlng air vents

SC

Just had an Weil McL EGH95 installed. Now I am getting water spitting out the air vents in the front and back room radiators. Adjusted the pitch on the radiators to a full bubble on the level. Return lines were replaced 2-3 years ago, air vents at the end of the mains also replaced at the same time (2-3 years). Is there a possibility of an air pocket in the line???

any suggestions greatly appreciated. P.S. Also pipes bang and clang.. I was told the banging is normal for a few weeks with a new boiler. Thanks

nicholas bonham-carter

new boiler-same old story

did the installers do a "skimming" on the boiler, or merely dump some mysterious white cure-all powder in it. do a search for "skimming" here, and that will be the first step of several needed.

the air vents were replaced several years ago, but are they still working, and adequate?

also check the installation manual for your boiler, and compare the as installed piping with that specified by the manufacturer.--nbc

Rod

Pictures

Hi- Post some pictures of the new boiler and the piping connected to it. Take the pictures so that the boiler and piping are in the same picture. That way we can trace out the piping and if we need more detail we can blow the pictures up. It's very important that the new boiler piping is configured properly.

- rod

jimmythegreek

same boiler

I have the same boiler and had the same problem for 2 years til I read here and learned the steam game.  It took me weeks of cleaning and skimming the system to reduce the wet steam and I still have some.  The risers need to be full port out of the boiler w no reducing bushings using both outputs and a drop header really helps this boiler.  Mine needs to be repiped in the spring, someone I know local has similar size WM boiler EGH variety and this solved his wet steam issue.  I have almost 4 feet of riser to my header from water line and still have some issues.  You vents may need to be changes and def a pressure check w a good low pressure guage.  Post pics as the prev posters mention, they know their steam

SC

thanks

thanks for the info. will look up info on skimming and get some photos this week. SC

SC

Radiator spitting

Help! Still have issue with water coming out of 1st floor radiators. Did a little investigation; boiler is not seating level, off by 1" to 1 1/4" which mean the water level is lower than the 23 1/2" requirement. Also the equalizer is not 2" below the water line if anything it is even with the water line. Would this be a factor in the water coming out of the radiators? Took apart the return line, ran a snake and water hose through; all is clear (return line only a few years old). moved main vents away from the end of the main at the request of the installer, still water issue (also water hammering). The return line is 1 1/4" is this a big enough return line? WM only tells you the equalizer must be a minimum of 1 1/2" it says nothing about the size of the return line. I have another building same size with a new boiler same size return and no problems. What should the cut-in and diff be set at? This boiler room has a low ceiling height , approx 66" however seems alot of 90 degree elbows installed, would this increase or decrease a wet steam factor? All ideas or comments greatly appreciated

Steamhead

That boiler needs to be repiped

the header is all wrong.



First, the risers from the boiler look like 2-inch instead of 3-inch. The boiler is tapped for 3-inch pipe for a reason- to slow the exiting steam so it won't carry water with it.



Second, the steam risers should both connect to the header on the same side of the system takeoffs. With one on each side, the water coming up from the boiler cannot escape to the equalizer (drop pipe at the very end of the header) so the water is forced into the system.



You can find a properly piped boiler of this type here:



http://www.heatinghelp.com/files/articles/1348/127.pdf



This state of affairs will never change unless the boiler is repiped properly.

SC

WM EGH 95

Out of the top of the boiler it is a 2" tap then it goes to a 3" header. I notice in your photo you come up out of the boiler then double 90 into the header is this to keep the steam dry? I am very limited as far as height. ceiling is only 66" high.

Steamhead

That wasn't one of my jobs in the pic

not sure who installed it, but it's done right.



The "drop header" lets us increase the riser height above the actual header. More height from the boiler to the top of the riser helps dry the steam. You don't need to raise the header itself, the higher risers do the job.



The "2" tap" in the boiler is a 3" by 2" bushing, which the installer screwed into the boiler section. He should know better.



Measure the height from the boiler's waterline to the bottom of the header. I bet you find this dimension is less than the 24" specified. If that minimum height isn't there, it will form another opportunity for water to enter the header.



Bottom line is, you didn't have this problem with the old boiler, right?

SC

No problems

No had no problems with the old boiler. It was an old HB Smith, ran like a "Cadillac".

Steamhead

Your EGH-95 will run that well

when it's properly repiped. 

SC

Drop Header

Now when the plumber installs the drop header is it 100% necessary that he stays 24" above the"idle" water line to the bottom of the header? The reason I ask is because the ceiling height is very low. Doing both the drop header while trying to stay 24" above the water line may be difficult or not possible.

Steamhead

The horizontal portion of the header

can stay at its current level. The risers from the boiler would go ABOVE the header (and that would give you your 24" height) then drop back down into the horizontal pipe. 

SC

TY

Thanks for all the info. Suppose to be correct this week. I'll post the results.

SC

same problem

Header changed and piped as recommended by the wall and WMc. However still have water coming out of the 1st floor radiators at the end of the run. banging also mid cycle. This is an EGH95 is it necessary to step up the size of the return up from the original 1 1/4"? I understand the new boiler make steam alot faster than the old ones. I would jump up to 2" return line if it was necessary. WM does not state a recommended return line size. Thanks to all in advance.

Rod

Spitting Vents

A few questions;

1. Has the boiler been skimmed?

2. How much (up & down) is the boiler's waterline bouncing when the burner is on?

2. At what pressure are you running the boiler?

3. What is the make and model of the vents on the problem radiators?

- Rod

SC

Spitting vents

Boiler was skimmed, not much bounce in the water line, cut-in set @ 1/2 lb differential @ 1.5, just replaced air vents with Gorton # 6.

jpf321

repipe pics?

can you post some pics of the repipe? and the hartford loop area? 

Steve_175

Main Venting

What type, how many, and what condition are your main vents?



Show pics of the repiping.

SC

STILL PROBLEMS

Main vents at the end of the run in the basement consist of 3 Gorton # 1 air valves. Can't get a shoot of the hartford loop because it is a tight spot but the 2 condensation return line meet at at a tee then elbow up to another elbow to a short/close nipple the to a tee to the equilizer and drop from the header. it appears to be correct. Water still flowing out 1st floor radiadtors, althought the 1 1/4" return line is clear is it possible I must put a larger return line in, say 2"?? And of course because of the water issue I have banging at the pipes.

nicholas bonham-carter

new piping-repiping-spitting

get a good low-pressure gauge [gaugestore.com 0-3 psi], and put it on the same pigtail as the pressuretrol, and tell us your pressure in ounces. if the dirty water from a new install has clogged the pigtail, your pressure could shoot up out of control, pushing water up in the returns.

have you compared your piping with the mfg's minimum specs for diameters and layout?--nbc

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Mid Cycle banging.......

Well, getting the boiler piping corrected was definitely step one.  Now I'd begin to look for a sagging piping....either the main or the run out to a radiator.  All the piping needs to be sloped to drain the condensate water.  Most one pipe systems have the piping at the highest point right above the boiler and then slope consistantly down to the drip at the end of the steam main where it enters the wet return.  Also, was the boiler sized to the radiation?  Too large a  boiler could also be causing issues such as banging.  Is the Banging in the piping or a radiator?

SC

piping n pigtail

I'll take the pigtail apart and see. however when the boiler is running it shuts down when it hits 2 psi on the main gauge which makes me assume its not over running the pressure but I will check on it. Every thing seems to be as per Weil McL specs. Although Weil McL does go into a complicated formula to see if you must put in a bigger return line. ITS DRIVING ME NUTS

SC

banging........

I will double check the slope of the pipe. The radiators were measured I was told it was approx. 900 sq ft of steam needed so I don't think it's oversized. The banging seems to be from were the pipe tees off to the radiator on the first floor, but it's kind of hard to tell. I am thinking about changing the return line from 11/4'" to 2" to increase the volume of water returning to the boiler. I was wondering if any one else had this problem and if an increase on the return line size will cure the ill????? Soon the banging in the pipes will be from me banging my head against the pipe!

jpf321

return sizing

According to TLAOSH .. 1-1/4" returns will support 1200sqft EDR on a 1-pipe wet return. that's not to say perhaps that they are crudded up inside and their capacity is therefore reduced, but if you are not shutting down on Low Water, you are probably A-OK.



How much Dimension A is there now that you have repiped?

Has the waterline changed since the original non-banging condition?

Do you have any horizontal connections that were once wet but now are dry?

Paul_11

Have you checked the A dimension

Is the new water line higher than the old water line.

The last post mentions the A dimension, which I think is one subject that needs to be addressed.

Do you have 28" between the normal water line (NWL) and your lowest overhead steam line.

By NWL I don't mean the lowest permissable water line, but where the water ends up between cycles.

You may be better off if you can get someone to come look who knows steam.

Paul

SC

return sizing

I will check the dimension. WMcL says 24" min. above the water line which I know it has. The problem is a low ceiling height. The boiler was piped out with 2" out of the boiler which is the min. size WMcL recommends. I am wondering with the 2" plus low ceiling height; is this causing the problem? Maybe I need to increase the pipe out of the boiler to 3"? Installer did not want to go with the drop header system which was previously recommended and says 2" out of the boiler is as per manufactures specs.

jimmythegreek

advice

i posted in this thread at the beginning.  I have the same boiler in one of my commercial buildings.  It is now 11 yrs old I been there almost three years.  I had same problems you are having.  Now I have 2" return lines all the way back from the mains, but I had to repipe.....heres the story shortened.... I had to find out the hard way after doing everything except a near boiler repipe.  Repitched sagging mains, multiple new main vents on antlers (gorton #2s) and changed all 46 rad vents based on size and location.  The guy who installed my WM did an ok job, but he used 2" bushings at the boiler instead of 3" boiler tap size, and my header was 4" all the way proper hartford loop and all.  I could never get rid of the wet steam and dirty water, I have good headroom and had 49" to the waterline!  I bit the bullet and did 3" all the way and did it right and boiler is now a "cadillac" as they say.  What I see in your pics is not only 2" pipe but you got 2" ball valves.  Look at a 2" ball valve at the supply house and see how much room is actually in that valve, its like an inch maybe inch and a half tops.  These WM boilers need all the room possible, I will guarantee if you dont remove those ball valves and get the bushings off that boiler and do 3" it will NEVER be right.  The truth is most of the jerkoffs putting in these steam boilers dont know squat and dont have the proper tools.  The pipe threader that 90% of the plumbers use has a 2" MAX thread capacity so they reduce and use 2" or less.  A real steam pro or pro in general has the right threader to do 2" to 4" which is a rarity unless you do steam work or commercial pipe work.  Thats the real reason you have 2" pipe on there, ask the other pros on here.......they will confirm