Is anyone familiar with trane heat convecting boxes?

Roma

I have a two pipe steam system that seems to be airlocked to me.  I have 22 trane heat convector boxes of varying sizes throughout 3 floors of my home.  I wanted to chat with someone who has these in their home or is familiar with them.  I am burning about 275 gallons of oil a month with the thermostat at 68 from 8am - 11pm and 66 for the rest of the night.  My main boiler runs for about 20 minutes then the boiler shuts off and I only get about 5 mins of heat from the convectors.  With a 2 pipe system if the steam traps are working shouldn't the heat keep coming up if the mains are red hot in the basement?  It seems as if I am running the heat to compress the air to heat the boxes.  I had a guy come over and he recommened that i cut a hole into the wall on the third floor so that he could put a vent on the main and or return since that box is the highest return and main in the house.  Does this seem like a good idea?

Steamhead

Trane Heat Cabinets

can be found here:



http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/158/Radiators/1280/Trane-Heat-Cabinets



It pays to wander off the Wall and into the Library.



The first thing to check are the dry return vents on your system. These are responsible for disposing of the air that vents from the Heat Cabinets.  The air vents thru the traps on the Heat Cabinets, into the dry return and out the vent. If this vent isn't working or is too small, you won't get much heat.



If it takes 20 minutes for the steam to appear and the dry return vent is OK, the vents on the steam mains probably aren't working.



We have a lot of Trane systems here in Baltimore, some with Heat Cabinets and others with cast-iron radiators. They work great when set up properly.

Roma

New vents

I actually put 2 new hoffman 75's on the mains, there were hoffman 76 vacuum vents on their previously.  I took the old hoffman 75's off of the retuns and boiled them in vinegar and they seemed to be blowing out fine, so I reinstalled them on to the returns.  Does it sound normal for the units to only heat for about 5 mins or should they keep letting out heat if the pipes are super hot in the basement.  Also thanks for the link I printed that info out. 

Steamhead

In a large system like that

you probably need more venting.



The original Trane vents used on this system had about the same throughput as Hoffman's current #75/76 vents. These were fine in the coal-fired days since the steam came up slowly. But with today's oil- and gas-fired boilers, the steam comes up quickly and often overwhelms vents sized for coal. This gets us into Gorton #2 territory- as seen in the signature photo of my posts.



Measure the length and diameter of each of your steam mains and post the numbers here. We can tell you what you need.

Roma

length of mains

The main pipes off the boiler are about 3 inch pipe then the main goes up about 4 inch into the ceiling and attaches to what my friend calls a heet tee (which also drops straight down into the wet return pipes below).  the 4 inch pipe goes out through the wall as a 3 inch main and breaks off into two mains at another tee.  the 3 inch pipe is approximately a 10 foot lenght plus about 10 feet before it goes through the wall.   The one main i believe is 2.5 inch pipe and is about 54 feet in total.  The other main is breaks off as 1st 2.5 inch pipe about 35 ft long and then reduces into 2 inch pipe about 50 ft long.  The returns are 1inch pipe that run parallel to the mains. 

Roma

all steamed up

I found you guys online through google.  Would it be alright if I contact you by phone?  It might be easier if I talk to you.  Thanks.  I called the number but it said to leave a message unless its an emergency with 2 different numbers to call.  Thanks again I have been having problems with this system for a long time.

Steamhead

I'd vent each steam main

with two Gorton #2 vents. This will clear out the air in a super hurry.



You can build a "tree" of piping and use all those Hoffmans on the dry return, so they won't be wasted.



If no one in your area carries Gorton vents, you can get them online at PEX supply.

Steamhead

Sure

call the number for Frank. I'll pick up. 

Roma

how about the other info the guy suggested

Sir what do you think about what the other guy suggested about putting a vent on top of the highest feed and return at the highest trane convector box?

Steamhead

I wouldn't do that

the air should be going down into the dry return and out the vent. Get the vents in the basement working right. 

Roma

thanks again

Thanks again for letting me take up some of your time and allowing me to pick your brain I will try the ball valve trick tonight on the returns and see if it makes a difference

Roma

ball valves on dry returns

After removing the hoffman 75's from both of the returns.  I set the thermostat for 70 from 68 and the system ran for a half hour or so without going off on pressure from the vaporstat.  It took about 10 to 12 minutes before the steam reached the end of the mains and or the hoffman 75 vents.  I am going to buy 4 new gorton #2's and put them on the 2 mains as you suggested.  Also I am going to add the other 2 hoffman vents on to the returns.  Also I checked this website to find a contractor for my zip code with no luck, so I posted a question on this site to see if anyone knows any contractor who does service Yonkers, NY.

Roma

Put in the new gorton # 2's

I just added 4 gorton #2's to my system.  2 on each main.  I took the hoffman 75's and added them to the returns.  One problem I did have was the gorton#2's are much bigger than the hoffman 75's the barely fit under the ceiling. I did not want to jam them under so I have them off at an angle.  They are sitting at approximately an 80 to 85 degree angle.  Is this ok or do they have to be exactly 90 degrees straight up?

So now I have a 1/2 nipple of my main, into a 1/2 tee, to with a tree configuration to a 1/2 90 on each side to a gorton #2.  The other configuration is a tree configuration except all in 3/4" and then reduces down to 1/2" on the 90 to a gorton #2.  Both returns now are 1/2" tee to 1/2" 90's to a hoffman 75 on each side.  Now I just have to see if there is any improvement in the heat coming up.