Hydronic system gushing water, unable to replace during winter?

corsair2

So I have two issues with my heating system. One is rather urgent (it's pouring water all over my floor at a remarkably alarming rate) and the other slightly less so (a heating guy tells me there's nothing he can do during the winter).



First, the disclaimer: I understand almost nothing. I tried to do some research into hydronic systems when I guess "water hammering" noises started but the more I read, the more confused I felt I became. My dad was the DIYer, I guess I inherited none of those gifts and unfortunately, he's retired across the world so i'm stuck.



I have a (I believe) one pipe hydronic system that uses the baseboards instead of the big radiator things. It's an old system as far as I know because the upper floor used to use the radiators but was straight up replaced with baseboard units (by a contractor of questionable repute unfortunately -> dad found him in a chinese newspaper, don't ask). A few years ago the hot water boiler was upgraded and a 2nd one was installed as well, but that was about it as far as I know about really doing any major upgrades to the heating system. Overall, it's still pretty much the old system.



My dad had a better contractor (an actual heating guy, I think) come in and take a look at it. He installed a new pipe (that does what I couldn't tell you) near the boiler. I think it was to fix a pitching issue about a year and a half ago. Anyway, he was the guy that came in more recently to look at some valve spitting issues and decided to change some really old valves we had and put it some Varivalves. I don't know what we had previously. They were some tiny things that I can't even find anymore. One etching on it mentioned Hoffman but I can't even find the product on Hoffman's site or anything remotely resembling it.



About 3 days ago, two valves started spitting. One valve was on the main floor directly above where the boiler is and the one closest to it. It got progressively worse. I replaced one of them with the old Hoffman's it seemed to stop that leak but nothing I did to the one directly above the boiler room seemed to stop it. It went from spitting to pretty much gushing. When the heat is on, it spews so much water that if I don't check the boiler reservoir's water level every say hour to hour and a half, it falls below the minimum level line. I feel like the auto-fill system doesn't work at all or it can't even keep up with how much water is spewing.



I had the heating guy come in. But unfortunately, only my sister could be home when he was able to come. But the gist of what I got was, he couldn't do anything without replacing the whole system. The other problem was, she told me he couldn't replace the system in the winter. I don't know why and apparently she didn't think to ask.



Is there anything I can even do?



I'm afraid to keep the heat off since i'm told the pipes may freeze and I don't really have a reliable heating system for most of the house. I have some less than efficient Fujitsu Halycon Inverter blower units but these things seem to randomly not blow or blow cold air at times for reasons unbeknownst to me.

Rod

System Problems

Hi- From your description I'm not quite sure what your system is. You mention "Hydronic" and also "1pipe" , "Hydronic" tends to mean it is a hot water system and "one pipe" usually refers to a steam system. While both use boiler other than that they are quite different.  Since you posted in the Steam section and also mentioned "vari-valves" I 'm going to make the assumption this is a steam system we're talking about.

We'll do our best to help you but first we need to know more about your system and probably the best way for you to tell us is to take some pictures of the boiler from all sides and also the leaking valves.

Also if you could answer some questions it wil give us a better idea of how you system is configured. If this is a steam system do you have a hot water coil hooked up to the boiler?

(hot water coil in internal in the boiler and  makes hot water for domestic use.  When the boiler isn't running where is the water line located on the sight glass?  On a steam unit you should have a pressure gauge. What is the highest pressure the boiler usually achieves when running?

You might want to look in the Find a Professional section at the top of this page and see if there is a steam pro located near you. Scroll past the zip code section and down to the states. There are some really good guys listed there. As for replacing it during the winter that really isn't an issue unless you live at the North Pole!

- Rod

corsair2

Pics

Shows how much I know! ):



It's a steam system, i'm pretty sure. I've taken a few pictures as requested, though with a poor cell phone camera. It's what I have on hand to quickly get 'em up.



As for the "hot water coil hooked up to the boiler", dad says no.



When the boiler isn't running, the water level usually is about 1/3 to 1/2 on the sight glass. As for the pressure gauge, when it's running, I watched the needle for a good 15 minutes and it fiddles a little bit but it never moves much past 0. There's a grey box to set psi levels which is set to 2 but the gauge never gets anywhere. The needle vibrates but that's about it.



Pictures:



The old original valves are in place because that's what my dad had put in place the first time they spit water so I figured I would try that solution. (Didn't work for the valve directly above the boiler room).



Leaking valve first floor directly above boiler (original before the guy replaced): http://i.imgur.com/gqkuo.jpg

Second valve (original before guy replaced): http://i.imgur.com/dYPzB.jpg

Varivalve that the guy used to replace them with, this one I think is broken, a top metal cap seemed to have fallen off of it for some reason but it spit: http://i.imgur.com/Ys3JH.jpg

Sight gauge on boiler: http://i.imgur.com/9dns4.jpg

Boiler brand: http://i.imgur.com/PlqKN.jpg

Pressure gauge: http://i.imgur.com/i5j2h.jpg

Water heater: http://i.imgur.com/hA7Ho.jpg

Overall front view of boiler: http://i.imgur.com/Nae9Y.jpg

Pipes above boiler: http://i.imgur.com/kkQJS.jpg

Rod

Steam boiler

Okay you do have a steam boiler and it's manufactured by Weil McLain. There should be a  ID plate somewhere on the boiler with model number.

I've attached some of your pictures with labeling that I have added to help identify things.

The Pressuretrol controls the boiler's pressure. Residential steamboilers operate better at low pressure, normally at 2PSI or lower.  Lower = Better

One of the things I noticed was that your LWCO (Low Water Cut Off) is rather dusty. The LWCO is a safety device that shuts off the burner if the water in the boiler gets too low.

Low or no water in a boiler is very dangerous so it is important to keep the LWCO in top condition and to test it regularly. It should also be "blown down" at least once a week to clean out any dirt that has collected in it.  You blow it down by opening the valve at the bottom of the LWCO so as to allow and dirt that has settled in the unit to be drained off. There is a float switch in the unit that shuts off the burner if the water level gets too low so it is important that dirt isn't allowed to build up and obstruct teh float from operating properly. Put a 5 gal plastic bucket under the valve and drain off about a quart of water on each blow down.

While I'm thinking of it you might be interested in getting a very good book on this site that is written just for homeowners new to steam. It's called "We Got Steam Heat!"

http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Books/5/61/We-Got-Steam-Heat-A-Homeowners-Guide-to-Peaceful-Coexistence

It's humorous easy reading and in an evening or two, it will advance your knowledge of residential steam heating by light years! It will also save you a lot of money by instructing you on what maintenance a homeowner can do and what is best left to a pro.



Back to your system-  Could you you take some more pictures of your boiler and the piping connected to it?  In one of your pictures I've labeled the steam pipes -Main "A" and Main "B" . These pipes go to your convectors. Are there any pipes that lead from each of these pipes back to the boiler? How many convectors are connected to each main? Is there  a vent on the far end of the main -the end away from the boiler ? (it will probably look like a silver bullet pointing up)

The near piping connected to your boiler isn't really configured properly but let that wait for the moment. Did the system work well before this leak occurred? 



Vents-  While the pictures of the vents are very clear. It would seem they are the wrong type of vent. The Vari-Vent isn't the proper vent to use in this situation as it doesn't have a built in float. Vents with built in floats shut off when water reaches them. The other vents in the pictures aren't used on steam systems. The normal convector vent is a Hoffman 41 Convector vent. These are available at your local heating supply or at Pex Supply on the internet.

http://www.pexsupply.com/Hoffman-401455-41-1-8-Straight-Steam-Convector-Air-Valve-3518000-p 

If you can supply us with pictures of the convector and any piping /valves or vents leading to them It would be a big help.

- Rod

jpf321

where are you .. i'll come for a visit if in NYC ..

being that you have a Weil-Mclain served by Keyspan, you could quite possibly be in NYC, and being that you made Chinese Newspaper reference, you could be in Queens, and I have seen these fin-type-radiators on a 1-pipe steam system before in my neighborhood .. I'm happy to come for a visit .. drop me a line directly and let me know .. perhaps we could at least diagnose the problem a bit more together.