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Burnham-Toyotomi-Bock-Slant/Fin? Which one???

Mike907
Mike907 Member Posts: 6
Ready for an oil boiler to heat a detached garage with in slab pex.  Garage is 32 x44 with 10' walls. R-19 in walls, R-58 in ceiling.  One man door, one 9 x 16 garage door, no windows.  Slab is 6" thick with 6 loops of 1/2" pex, each loop is 220' long give or take 10',  have 2" foam board under slab as well as under and along the sides of the footings.  Asked around for recommendations on what would work best to supply heat to this and got a different answer each time.  Was told a Burnham LE-series would be perfect by one, another said the Burnham is no good and to use a Toyotomi Oil Miser OM-180, yet another said that only a Slant/Fin EUTECTIC should be used, still another said no boiler needed but to use a Bock oil fired water heater to supply the heat, had one say that the Burnham was ok but to hook it up to a water heater and then supply the heat from the water heater to the floor.  Maybe asking what boiler to use is like asking someone their favorite color. After finding this site and reading some of the posts and answers I thought I'd ask you guys and hopefully come up with something.  Thanks for any reply's.  By the way, I'm up in Fairbanks Alaska where our winter temps can be 20-40 below zero for weeks and even dip down to -50 for a while.  

Comments

  • Al Letellier_21
    Al Letellier_21 Member Posts: 402
    which boiler

    Well, nice to hear from Alaska. Visited your state a few years ago and anxious to get back there some day.

    You have all the info of the structure and I assume a heat loss calculation was done. Now you have to select the fuel you are going to use. Being radiant, a condensing boiler would be the best for efficiency, but you are limited with oil. Gas condensing boilers are abundant and made by almost everyone. If in your shoes, I would look at availability of a trained service provider, availability of parts and if parts or service are limited, I would consider two boilers for backup...it increases the upfront cost but if that needed part is days away at -40, what are you going to do for heat to keep that slab warm?

    Good luck.

    Al in Maine
  • Mike907
    Mike907 Member Posts: 6
    Burnham-Toyotomi-Bock-Slant/Fin? Which one???

    Thanks for the reply, I thought that with over 700 views someone would have an opinion on what brand or set up would be best for this.   As stated my fuel will be oil.  You say a condensing boiler would be best for efficiency.  The ones that I listed were all suggested by local heating companies and each one had a different system that they thought was best.  If two companies agreed on a particular system I'd feel better with going that direction but all were different.  This is why I posted here to hopefully get 2nd, 3rd, 4th opinions and maybe someone who had to deal with a set up for a radiant slab in a garage.   Thanks again for the reply.
  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,424
    Elimination

    I wouldn't use a water heater to do a boilers job,eliminating Bock. Is Toyotomi serviced and supported in your area? Not here! I would lean toward condensing with radiant and oil narrows it down even further. How about a Peerless Pinnacle oil?
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  • Mike907
    Mike907 Member Posts: 6
    Burnham-Toyotomi-Bock-Slant/Fin? Which one???

    Isn't the bock oil fired water heater basically like a boiler?  It's heating up the water just like a typical boiler would isn't it?  Maybe I'm way off with that thinking.  I called around after looking at the Peerless but no one carries or services that up here, plus the cost was twice the amount of the others.  One company said that they can install a Monitor FCX which is a condensing boiler but said that problems arise from having a place for the condensate to drain because as much as a gallon of it develops with each gallon of fuel oil burned.  I don't have sewer lines here so it would have to drain to the outside of the garage and with 40 below temperatures during the winter I see a problem keeping it from freezing.  I appreciated your reply, that's a nice looking setup you have.
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,200
    No bock is not a boiler

    The boiler that has at least 2 nearby stocking supply houses is the one I would chose. For my area it would be Burnham. But MA is a long ways away from you. You want a boiler someone else can service, not just the installer. People get busy, sick, tired, and retired. You want a boiler that is supported and serviced. and yes you want a boiler not a water heater. other wise just drop a hot air furnace in the corner and go cheap. The bock is not any cheaper than a boiler to buy or install, just more expensive to run and has a much shorter life span.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Paul Fredricks_3
    Paul Fredricks_3 Member Posts: 1,557
    Agreed

    Keep to brands that anyone can work on. The Toyotomi is a nice unit, but it is much different from anything else out there, with all proprietary parts. If it's not handled by everyone in your area it gets very tough to change companies. 
  • Mike907
    Mike907 Member Posts: 6
    Burnham-Toyotomi-Bock-Slant/Fin? Which one???

    All of the systems that I noted in my original post are available and serviced up here, and not by only one company but many.   I'll eliminate the Bock water heater, a condensing boiler would not be a good choice for this application, I've talked to installers who have said that without a sewer line to drain the condensate I would have problems with freeze up.  They also said that the higher efficiency ratings with condensing boilers are exaggerated by the manufacturers,  that in order to obtain such numbers they raise I believe they said the co output to obtain them and to do so in an actual application would cause the unit to soot up.  At this point I'm leaning towards the Burnham LE.  Thanks for your thoughts.
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,200
    In order to obtain condensing

    you need to have enough heat emitters to utilize a low water temperature to warm the building. In your area that may be a lot of extra heat emitter. As long as the installer does a good job I think you will be happy with the burnham both in the long term and the short term.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • Mike907
    Mike907 Member Posts: 6
    Burnham-Toyotomi-Bock-Slant/Fin? Which one???

    Now the question..... between the two installers that recommended the Burnham LE.  One thought the boiler alone would be ideal while the other wanted to add a water tank (40 gallon)  down line from the boiler and then supply the heat to the slab from the water tank.   Any thoughts on either of these????   One more thought was that the first installer (boiler alone) said single fuel line from above ground fuel tank was fine while the second installer ( water tank) wanted to install a Tiger Loop.  Thanks again for your input.
  • Tundra
    Tundra Member Posts: 93
    Burnham-Toyotomi-Bock-Slant/Fin? Which one???

    The Toyostove is not an ASME rated boiler so I stay away from them. Yes to the Tiger Loop, this will help on a number of levels including your cold oil. I use the Biasi but the Buderus is good as well. The Burnam LE 1 is okay but with lower efficiency than the previouly mentioned boilers. I live in Alaska as well and see -40F most years and some of my customers see -50F most years. The technician you choose is as important as the appliance so choose well.
  • Mike907
    Mike907 Member Posts: 6
    Burnham-Toyotomi-Bock-Slant/Fin? Which one???

    After tracking down a few people in my area with similar situations I have decided on the Toyotome OM-180 for a few reasons.  Compared to the Burnham it definitely runs quieter plus, it's intake air is pre-heated by the exhaust unlike the Burnham.  I was told by one home owner who was heating a garage with a Burnham that during the winters  the cold air intake caused the boiler to run erratically because the intake and exhaust are on separate lines.  He switched to a Toyotome and for two winters hasn't had a problem, adding that it also was much quieter and used less fuel as the Burnham.  One homeowner with a Burnham didn't have problems but his was set up to use interior air as it's intake but added that he had to change nozzles at least twice during the winters. 
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