one pipe steam expert, Rockland County, NY

acrylicpt9

I have an old coal to gas steam boiler and a one pipe system. Some of my radiators are baseboard and these are the ones I have the least heat coming from. The boiler has not been maintained as the house was empty for 4-5 years. These baseboard radiators lack any air vent. There is a hole where one was. Some or most of the piping is in exterior walls and I don't know if these are insulated. (The walls aren't.) I was told by one plumber that draining and cleaning my system might cause a leak; rust maybe holding the thing together. Is this likely? I plan on insulating the walls with blown in insulation. Some of the pipes go through crawl spaces and I've had one crawl area sealed and foamed. Who in Rockland County, NY is a steam expert? I'd like to keep this boiler as it's efficiency is 77%. Thanks.

Steamhead

Uhhhhhhhh

77% efficiency is a good reason to replace that boiler! The best new ones have AFUE ratings of 84-86%. 

acrylicpt9

25 year payback

I think 77% is pretty darn good. Thanks but I need answers to my questions not a $13K bill+. 

Steamhead

If the combustion test

only shows 77% efficiency, the boiler's overall efficiency is even less. Some of these older coal boilers- especially round ones- were only good for about 40% overall efficiency on oil or gas. Even rectangular ones, if not properly converted, waste a lot of fuel. So the payback shouldn't take nearly that long.



Unless it's installed properly, baseboard on steam is asking for trouble. If the baseboard is fin-tube and the rest of the radiators are cast-iron, the baseboard will cool down much faster than the iron and those rooms will be cold.



Have you tried the Find a Contractor page of this site?

nicholas bonham-carter

rust holding it together?

i am not sure what you mean by draining and cleaning the system-surely not the supply pipes, and radiators?

obviously, if your radiators and baseboard are part of a 1-pipe system, each of those will need an air vent. in addition, several main vents will be needed on the dry return, or if counterflow at the ends of each main.

as far as cleaning the boiler, a good flush of the mudleg and the wet return should be beneficial. any part "held together by rust" can be found and replaced with parts "held together with threaded pipe".

an old system like yours will work best at the lowest pressure which can be set on the pressuretrol. that gives basic function;  however if you want real comfort and economy from any boiler, a vaporstat will keep the steam pressure below 12 ounces.--nbc

acrylicpt9

one pipe steam expert

I was told just the opposite: the efficiency of the new systems are under perfect conditions and are less in my home, while the efficiency test done on my system in my home is accurate. My boiler has a cylinder shape and the burner is circular too. The cast iron baseboards are not fin type. What about cleaning the water as found on this sight? Am I in danger of taking away "what's holding the boiler together" or is this just another plumber trying to sell me a new system?

And one of the old fashioned radiators, when I took the air escape valve off had water in it. I read on the forum it could be that one side (which-intake side or vent side?) needs raising?

acrylicpt9

flushing mudleg and wet return

The wet return is under the concrete floor. What is a mudleg? I do have vents on most of the mains. How can I tell if they are working properly? Two pipes that go in one direction don't seem to have a main vent. They are closest to the boiler and quickly enter the wall they go up to living level through.

clammy

coal to gas

As other have stated most coal fired boilers when converted to either oil or gas are not really doing your fuel use justice ,and as they have stated and i also know wheather  it  is cast or fin tube baseboard ,raditors usually always work better then using any type of baseboard  it has it's inherient promblems and usually under performed when compared to a old fashion raditor usually because of lack of pitch back to the supply valve  ,length,and operating at to high a pressure. When all is fixed don't be surprised if they work like crap they usually do and in a rare occasion maybe ok it is a gamble which i rarely do and when i do i let the HO know all the odds  As for draining the system it should be done but as your plumber has stated it may leak afterwards and when operating a system where the boiler is full of mud the fuel usage is usually very high and in some cases these boilers are already leaking but you don't know because it draining under the fire box into the cement your installer finds out when takes out the old one beause the ement is wet and usually in crumbs been there seen it quite a few times .As for recommending a contractor in rockland good luck i live right on the border in jersey and in this area i see alot of knuckle heading on both steam and hot water systems.With the boiler you have now it is in all likelyhood about 50 % larger then what is need and running at maybe 50 to 60 % eff .Depending on the shape of the reset of the system ,piping ,air vents and rads if it's in bad shape and has been  derelect for a long peroid be prepared for more then just a little work to get it in shape in some cases it may not be worth it ,i am not trying to be mean about it just telling you the truth from more then 20 years in the bussiness . I have done these type of boiler replacement in the past and the fuel usuage was cut almost in half beside the fact the system heating in about 1/3 the time .Be sure who ever does work clearly explains the what and why's also do your self a even bigger favor and pick up some of dans books so you will have some knoweldge and be able to tell who is pulling your leg the money you spend on the books will save you alot of headaches in the future  Peace and good luck clammy

nicholas bonham-carter

mudleg

why not get "the lost art of steam heating", and "greening steam" from the shop here and  that will give you an easy to understand overview of steam systems like yours, as well as terminology/nomenclature.

as far as main vents are concerned, they should get steam hot, with no leakage, after letting the air out with no great restriction. let the system cool by setting down the thermostat, and then restart while you are next to the main vents. they should be seen to let out the air, and then close up when steam arrives at their position on the dry return. they are almost the single most important part of the system to keep in good working order, other wise, you will be paying your fuel company extra [15%] for forced air removal.--nbc

acrylicpt9

Thanks. Clammy

OK so you don't do work in Rockland? I'll get the book. So when you say it might not be worth it, does that mean even a new boiler would not be worth it, that the whole system would have to be replaced? And if I can keep the system, just replace the boiler, do you have a good source for the old rad. so I could replace the baseboard in 3 rooms? I do have one radiator in the garage that was probably either in the dining room or master bedroom.

acrylicpt9

Thanks Mudleg

Thanks. I will get the books. Thanks for a way to check the mains. So when you say "see the air" do you mean hear the air? And how can I tell if they close; no steam coming out?

acrylicpt9

Thank you

Sorry. It was you who told me how to check the main vents. So how do you see the air?

Hear it? And how do I know when or if they close. I do plan on getting the books. Even though the house was empty for 4-5 years the heat was on at least minimally as it was on the RE market. Thank you.