Improper near boiler piping and other issues

TroyBKLYN

Our boiler that is not piped correctly, and I'm hoping to get some advice on whether it makes sense to have it repiped now, or whether I should wait until we replace the boiler. I've been learning as much as I can from this site, and I believe it has at least a couple of issues:

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There is a pipe in the header between the risers. The T is in between them. (see photos)



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I do not think there is a “king valve” (see photos)



</li><li>I had a plumber who specializes in steam heating come and look at our system because we are not getting even heat distribution among the 8 units. He recommended the following work:



1- The boiler steam piping that is installed is improperly done. (see my comments above)



2- The steam lines in the basement left and right side need special air vents at the end of each steam line. And needs 3 or 4 special vents at the end of the supply lines.



3- Each riser throughout the house needs special vents.



4- The radiators installed are pitched incorrectly and the air valves are not installed in the proper place.



5- The steam line on the left side of the basement (the same side as the boiler) is pitched toward the middle of the line both ends pitch up toward the middle of the line a condensate drip needs to be installed from the line to the return line near the boiler room.



6- The boiler room door needs to be self closing.



7- Boiler room has numerous holes all over that need to be filled



8- Boiler room fresh air not large enough needs 1 sq inch per 1000btu’s



I live in an 8 unit coop so the cost of the work would be split between

the 8 units, but still it's a lot. I wonder if we should wait until

the boiler needs to be replaced (probably 10 years) to do this work,

or if any of it (especially the near boiler piping) really needs to

be done now. He unfortunately won't break out the cost of each of the

8 items which is a bit frustrating. Any advice would be much

appreciated. Also, if anyone has recommendations on Brooklyn, New York based plumbers for this sort of work, please let me know.



Thanks,

Troy</li></ul>

BobC

Pay me now or pay me later.

How well does the building heat now? This is single pipe steam?



To me the venting and that one main with a dip in it should be fixed asap for fuel efficiency. Those two items are probably burning a lot of gas just to push the air out of the pipes.



The makeup air and boiler room door issues have to be dealt with just from an insurance point not to mention general safety.



I would try to get some other quotes but remember you are probably burning a lot of gas that you don't have to. The excess gas usage over 10 years is going to be be a big number.



Bob

Danny Scully

Price

We don't talk price on the wall. But putting that aside, your potential contractors suggestions all seem common to improving even heat distribution. Like with any project, however, it is always good to get a few quotes.

TomM

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The irony is that not fixing #7 and #8  may satisfy #9. 







and it should only cost $39.95 to fix #2, #3 and #4.







http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Books/5/68/Lost-Art-Of-Steam-Heating

nicholas bonham-carter

8 units of steam

do #2 first with the installation of a low-pressure gauge [gaugestore.com 0-3 psi]. ordinarily, the main vents [gorton #2's] are mounted on an antler at the point where the dry return ends [if you have one]. keep adding vents until the back-pressure is as low as possible.

wait on #3 until the end. you may be able to use a larger radiator vent [gorton d]on each very top radiator.

do #4 and leave the radiator vents alone for the moment.

#5-you may be able to repitch this pipe, as it has probably sagged. water should not be allowed to collect in the middle of this pipe, but if it sagged, it is probably possible to straighten it out.

this doesn't seem to be racking up too much expense yet, so consider a vaporstat for the boiler, set for 12 ounces, [proper main venting essential for this]. savings from this and venting will pay for corking the boiler room holes!  what sort of boiler room "holes" are there now.

yes you should have combustion air at some point, but until you have it installed, install a cabon monoxide detector asap!--nbc

jpf321

how handy are you?

I'm happy to give you a hand working on some of these issues if you're up for it...you buy the parts, I'll bring a few tools, books and brain.



also, you really should edit that price out of your original post.

jpf321

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the other thought I had was that except for the near boiler repiping, everything else is independent of a new boiler...so if you pay for the work now, you are saving money in the time prior to boiler replacement and not respending for these 1 time corrections at replacement time.

bklynfrank

That looks just like my

EGH-115 for my five family in brooklyn.  I spent 5k in gas in 2010.  How much more did you use last year?  With suggestions here and in Lost Art Of Steam Heating, i think I can trim another 1k off.    

My near boiler piping is mostlikely wrong too but I think the larger piping is helping me out.  I'm still debating about touching it.  Been like this since 96'

Until recently, I've only addressed my fuel cost by controlling the thermostat, my setup turns on the boiler @69 and off at 71  anything higher my tenants are opening the windows.  

Every year, i visit each radiator, (3 per apt) ensure the valve is open and the air valve is working.

Now with cranking down the pressure, I'm at 75% duty cycle after it makes 14 oz.  So like an hour of calling for heat cost about 3 therms.  I think today was like 20 therms.

I'm not a professional, just a landlord who hates those big numbers.  I would have someone fix one or two pieces of the puzzle at a time. 

Forgot one thing.... I have a second low-water cutoff, I've had two failed since 96'. IMHO, its worth the second unit.

TroyBKLYN

follow up

Everyone: Thanks for letting me know about not talking about price. I removed it from my post. And thanks for the quick responses. I really appreciate it.



BobC: The heating distribution is not great, although I know it's tough with steam systems. The top floor apartment on one side is pretty chilly while the bottom

floor apartments are very hot. The owners in one removed all of their

radiators. In the top floor apartment, the risers terminate at the

radiators though instead of having a length of pipe extend above with

a vent. I'm hoping if they fix that (and move their air vents to the

proper side), that may help. I'm not sure what you mean by single

pipe steam, but I'm guessing you mean the number of risers? There are

two main pipes, one goes to the front of the apartments and one to

the back.



Jpf321: If you're being serious, I might take you up on it! I consider myself pretty handy, but I'm definitely new to all of this stuff. I'd make a good assistant

though. How much time do you think I/we would need to shut down the

boiler? Would I have to wait until Spring? Obviously I would only try

to tackle #2, #3, and #4. And about the near boiler piping. If we did that work now, would we still have to redo it when we replace the boiler? I was hoping it would make the installation of the new boiler cheaper, although maybe not by as much as the work would cost.



bklynfrank: I'm not sure how much we spent on fuel, but I could look into it. Is the $5k number just for the gas or for the gas delivery company too?



nicholas: Thanks for your tips. That all makes sense to me. We do have a carbon monoxide detector in there, and have never had any issues. The door to the boiler is always cracked though.



Thanks again everyone...

Troy

bklynfrank

Heating bill

is 5k including delivery,taxes and whatever else they manage to dream up and put on that bill.

jpf321

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