steam system - equalizer question

need_some_help

Hello- this is a first time post / question. We recently completed a small addition of our home. The GC and plumbing sub added 2 new radiators to the system. The boiler is an older hydrotherm steam boiler. After restarting the heat, the boiler now cycles off every minute or so. You can see the water level drop in the glass and then the boiler shuts down. The water level rises again and the boiler re-fires. The plumber tried a number of things and nothing worked. He has settled on the idea that the equalizer was piped incorrectly during the original installation (and there should be only 1 hartford loop not 2). Does this seem right? Do the photos help? The plumber also turned off the 2 new radiators but the boiler continued to cycle on and off.  We've owned this house for several years and the heat was working well before the work. Overall the experience has been great- I just a little nervous, given the back and forth, about moving forward.



thanks for any help!

fulton

jpf321

dirty water perhaps ...

with the addition of the new rads came also the addition of new pipes, iron and oil .. and likely, your water suffered .. do a few proper skims, maybe even a full drain and flush .. it's likely your water as the first culprit .. since everything was dandy before adding all the new contaminants. and it could take quite a while to clean the system off all the new, not even visible to you, oil and particles. 

nicholas bonham-carter

has pressure changed?

inadvertent changes in the operating pressure could also make an unsteady waterline, as the water level in the returns can move up 1.75 inches for each ounce of system pressure! unfortunately the standard 0-30 psi gauge is useless for this diagnostic work. try getting a 0-3 psi gauge [gaugestore.com] and put that on the same pigtail as the pressuretrol [clean the pigtail], and then you will see if you are above 1.5 psi.--nbc

jpf321

dare I ask ..

why there is a pipe with a pall valve on your pressure relief valve .. perhaps this is for attempted skimming? 

need_some_help

steam system - equalizer question

Not sure - as the plumber describes the problem - the boiler can not build up enough pressure because it is drawing out the water - this is due to the incorrect installation of the equalizer...

Charlie from wmass

the return piping

is wrong, what else did they mess with? dirty water from the cutting oil. Skim it or add approve cleaner ands drain and flush.

need_some_help

steam system - equalizer question

yes - for attempted skimming

Charlie from wmass

Thats not how you

Skim a boiler. Thats how you coat the top inside of a boiler with oil and let it drip back down as it runs later.

need_some_help

steam system - equalizer question

The return piping is as it was installed originally.

So far they have added a "skimmer" valve, replaced the main air vent and tried a skimming.

need_some_help

steam system - equalizer question

Will you explain this comment a little more!\? Thanks for your help!

jpf321

as charlie said .. and as I alluded to ...

you can't skim via a small hole at the top of a vessel .. as charlie mentioned .. all that will do is raise the muck up until finally all the muck touches to ceiling of the boiler .. and one little bit of muck will come out the hole and the water will keep flowing out that one little cleared hole .. then when you are done .. you drop the water level back down and all the muck is not stuck to the ceiling .. and once you begin making steam .. all that muck ends up back on top of the water ..



you need to skim from a side opening .. so that the muck is able to float on top of the water and find it's way out the side .. once the muck has touched the ceiling it's game over ..

need_some_help

steam system - equalizer question

thanks - i'll verify with the GC - i'm fairly sure that it was skimmed from there

should the pipe and the pall valve be removed?

need_some_help

steam system - equalizer question

thanks again for all the posts

jpf321

i think...

you probably should remove the pipe and valve from beneath the steam relief safety .. if nothing else .. someone may open the valve (accidentally or otherwise) while the system is running and you will have a boiler room full of steam in a hurry. and it probably violates some code about messing with the steam safety relief system.

Dave in QCA

Equalizer still all wrong!

I cant see by the capped fitting on the return side, that something has been recently modified.  I don't know how bad it was before, but the piping is still ALL WRONG!

The equalizer should not drop to the floor and then turn back up to the return tapping of the boiler.  

Also, the header should be traveling horizontally where the steam connection of the building connects off the top.

Let me see if I can find a manual for this boiler online.  If I do, I will add it to this reply.



Found the manual.

need_some_help

steam system - equalizer question

thanks that was very helpful

it seems like the plumber's diagnosis of the problems with the return side is correct

i'll discuss with him the skimming process



any thoughts on why it worked well before and cycles on and off now - even with the 2 new rad's taken off? could it just be the oily / dirty water?



would a good strategy be to first have is properly skimmed and flushed - then recheck before addressing the work on the return side?

jpf321

yes dirty water..

should be addressed first .. as you said, everything was dandy before the added rads .. as pointed out, there are a few other issues, but address your water first .. if it's really causing problems, try running a bit overfilled to limit the constant LWCO cycling.



i'm not sure how you will perform a proper skim on that boiler .. perhaps there is a skim port lurking beneath the jacket, but I wouldn't go trying to get it open.



flush, fill, boil repeat .. maybe stick a hose in the top opening where your pressure relief valve is with the boiler drains open to try to clean out the inside. maybe he can pull the DHW coil, but I would recommend that necessarily either .. you may open up all kinds of other trouble.



anytime you add significant amounts of fresh new water, boil it immediately for 10mins to drive off dissolve oxygen which will rust out your boiler.