System 2000 wiring issue

terraformer

A) I just bought the house. B) My heating guys are clueless.



I have a system 2000 with a valve tree and the system only opens the valve for the hot water, it is not opening the valves for the rest of the zones. This is at the circuit and not bad valves. The send lights on the right hand side just aren't kicking on. Now, there looks to be a lollipop like device situated in a spot that would be a good place for a thermostat for outbound water flow. This has been disconnected. I suspect that someone who didn't know what they were doing disconnected it. It's been like this for years and the circulator has probably been pushing against closed valves for years... *smack*



Anyhow, I need to reconnect it because I am pretty sure that the system 2000 manager has no clue the water has heated up and is not opening the valves because of this. Can anyone tell me which jumper is for this thermostat? I know where the primary hot water one is, as I have followed that to the source, but it is not clear from that one what the right jumper is for the main boiler.



I may also jump the zone calls to the valves so that when the zone calls for heat, it opens the valve. I realize robs the efficiency a bit but at least I can get a working system for now while I deal with the larger issue.

TIA



PS: It's the classic system 2K manager.

terraformer

More info

Some more info. I just remembered, when I moved in they replace the Hi-Lo relay on the water heater zone with one "similar" to the one that was there. I even seem to remember that they had extra wires left over. Looking at it a little while ago, this is in a good position to be THE thermostat. Could it be that the hi-lo is not wired right and is only operating when the hot water zone is called and not the other three?

billtwocase

First

I wouldn't be jumping things out to see if it works. That's how things burn out. Also there should a 1/2" by-pass for the boiler, if you get domestic hot water from it, the by-pass will be flowing thru the heat exchanger. Sounds like you need someone who knows these boilers to get it done right

terraformer

I would prefer not to

I would prefer not to, but anyone I call on this issue doesn't know what they are doing. I am done paying people to change out perfectly good parts. I want it fixed and I have enough confidence that this is some sort of wiring issue, which is something I am very qualified to deal with. Unfortunately there seems to be zero info online about the wiring of this system (I suspect this is intended) so I don't know what all of the pins are for on the circuit board. If I knew if there is a second pin on the board for a second aquastat or if it is the hi-lo aquastat at the hot water tank that does it I could fix this. And yes, there is a bypass with a separate heating element for the tank, which sort of confuses me as to why the aquastat is located where it is. It has a manual pressure/temp gauge just above it and for sure if I manually open one of the valves, that temp drops fast as the cold water rushes by.



This is why I think, there is a second aquastat needed.

tghog

classic 2000 problem

A jumper between P & T1 provide hot water priority to Zone 1 by closing all other zones until the call for heat on T1 goes away. Hot water prioritys are not required. Hot water aquastat malfunction or extended hot water calls will prevent Zones from opening.There is also a resistor on the left side of the board that should be hooked up to T1- A2. I would tell you this if this does not help you call Energy Kinetics Inc for a qualified technician that they reccomend in your area.

terraformer

thanks

The aquastat is brand new and is a honeywell L6081A. It appears to be wired properly and is brand new (one of the parts changed). It is set up as two zones (not jumped), one 120v (not tested but it's 12 guage) and the other 24v with the 120v heading into the manager and the 24v heading to the "pri" pin on the left side and the A(n?) on the left side. It appears to work properly on the 120v side because the burner cycles as I play with the limits. I need to get my multimeter and test the 24v side. Something could be wrong there, but then why does Z1 light up on the right side.



There is a resistor between t1 and the other A(n?) pin on the left side. I pulled the resistor with no effect. I will have to check the other jumper you mention. I don't believe it is there but I will check.



The problem here happens when there is and is not a hot water call so it is not JUST the hot water priority, but something more (though I acknowledge that the hw priority may be part of the problem).

tghog

Classic 2000 Problem

Also keep in mind that Z1 or last zone that called on all 2000 systems will run for a additional 5 minutes and purge the energy out of the boiler so it dont go out the chimney.

terraformer

update

OK, so the honeywell aquastat is wired to have the 24v connection between Pri and A1 is broken once the temp comes down to the low limit (6081A wired R-B) and broken again at hi limit. As for the resistor, that is there from T1 - A2. There is however nothing jumping T1 and Pri. I assume Pri = P.



So does this mean this is wired for HW priority or not wired for hot wired priority? Or some middle ground not wired correctly?



BTW: I removed the connection between Pri and A1 and then even the HW zone didn't light up on the right side. Once I made the connection between the two, bingo it lit up and worked but for HW only. The same can not be said of the other zones.



I have to say, there is a very good chance this has been wired this way since 1985. The circulator motor is brand new (I didn't replace it so it likely burned out). The boiler techs replaced the two aqua stats (Hi on burner, Hi-Lo on water), the sparker and the valves all for me since moving in because that would "fix" the problem.



Anyhow, does the above wiring make sense? What happens if I drop the aquastat relay on Pri and A1, drop the transistor and/or make that jump between T1 and Pri?



Or should I drop the transistor and leave everything else?

terraformer

re: Z1 delay

Yes, thanks. I realize that.



Thanks for the help BTW.

terraformer

Woo Hoo!

So, for 25 years, or some significant fraction thereof, the system here was incorrectly wired and all of the zones were fed heat through closed valves. It finally works right. I want to give a huge thanks to tghog for the help. If you hadn't told me how the HW zone priority trick worked, I couldn't wind it back which is what I did. If I removed each of the parts of it, there was little concern because lets face it, I was removing power and not adding it and so I did and sure enough, that was the problem.



Thanks.



ETA: BTW, the house heated up in 20 minutes and not 2 hours and only ONE zone heated up.

tghog

classic 2000 issue

When you jump between P & T1 this provides Hot water priority. Aqua-stat relay wired to P & A1 This provides condensing protection for this boiler. When the returns drop below the low set-point on the aqua-stat, the priority closes all other zones. They will remain closes until the return temperature increases above the aqua-stat set-point.As for resistor on T1 & A2 . It must stay on. It is a External Load resistor 100 ohm 10watt. When jumping anything on this system you should shut down power first.

terraformer

correction

OK, so the resistor is back on. That will stay on. The priority jump (T1 - Pri) will stay off. So the issue right now is in between hi and lo limits the power is flowing to Pri from the aquastat/relay. Since it works* when I remove that, that leads me to believe that this should be reversed. The power should be applied when the aquastat is OUTSIDE it's temp range. There is a wiring for that I believe which is R-W.



* By work I mean the righthand lights up fully when it powers on and the valves cycle when they should. When it doesn't work, the valves don't cycle ever and the startup only has the Z1 "valve" (which it's not a valve, but a circulator running) open.



BTW: Yes, I know I need to remove the power. There are six different ways in the wiring on this to make that happen from the master to a switch to manager itself. I just use the master which cuts all power.

tghog

Classic 2000 Wiring Problem

I am Sending you Help by way of a schematic. Just remember  manager only has low voltage wiring to it. From 15 years of experience on these lots of them are wired a little different because of the system they are hooked to. I hope this will complete your Job.

tghog

Classic 2000 Wiring Problem

I am Sending you Help by way of a schematic. Just remember  manager only has low voltage wiring to it. From 15 years of experience on these lots of them are wired a little different because of the system they are hooked to. I hope this will complete your Job.

terraformer

Thank You

This will help. I have the boiler techs coming today to change the aquastat to the L4081A because the L6081A is a) needless as the makes relay is not in use and not hooked up (which may be causing the issue) and b) it is clearly the source of the problem as the relay clicks when the temp changes on the low limit yet the 5v power continues to flow through the circuit regardless of the temp being 70, 120 or 160. That says to me it's either the wrong one or is bad.

terraformer

All fixed now

It was definitely the Honeywell aquastat. It was replaced with a like L6081A and it works fine now and the way I would think it should. I don't know how long this issue was happening but it is good to see it fixed.



I also know a lot more about this system now and when it comes time to replace or upgrade it, I will make a lot better decisions.



Thanks for everyone's help.



ETA: BTW, Tghog, thanks for posting the wiring specs. That will help out in the future. Knowing what the system will see and respond to is super helpful in figuring out what is wrong with it. Thanks again.