Looking for old boiler section

Hightop

Six years ago I replaced my gas-fired 1930's American Radiator boiler with a modern boiler.  I then used the old boiler to build an outdoor wood-fired boiler and used it for four seasons.  Unfortunately, last year I left it while travelling and it froze, cracking the end section.  I am now trying to find a replacement end section or a whole heat exchanger.  Details are:

381000 Btu

8 sections

Other numbers stamped on the plate are :

16-8

17B

1270

2030

Hightop

Is it hopeless?

Is there any hope of finding one of these things?  I'm sure there are some abandoned in basements, but I don't know how to find one.  If I don't get any leads, I'll start looking for alternative heat exchangers.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Hightop

Is it hopeless?

Is there any hope of finding one of these things?  I'm sure there are some abandoned in basements, but I don't know how to find one.  If I don't get any leads, I'll start looking for alternative heat exchangers.  Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks!

Mark Eatherton

Keep hoping....

When these boilers were set here in Denver, they were dropped into the basement before the floor joists were placed, so getting them out in one piece is virtually impossible.



You might try posting on Craigs list as well. The freight will kill you to...



Keep the faith, you never know.



Try calling Dave Strohman of Strohman P&H in Aurora, CO. (web site says Roofing, ignore it.) He does a lot of change outs.



ME

Hightop

It's on my Christmas list

I've uploaded some photos of my boiler to my Flickr album.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44542379@N02/sets/72157625534644753/

I have the skin off to show the castings.  The sections come apart with some coaxing.  I hauled this one out of my basement and then up to where it is now one section at a time.  The end pieces must be close to 200 lbs.  If I can find a front section to match, that would be the only piece I need.

Mark Eatherton

Oh wow....

That is a LOT different than what I had in my mind. I was thinking the old snowman type of boiler. That's an old atmospheric gas boiler. Best suggestion I can make would be to have the local hydronic heating contractors keep an eye out for a "new" cast iron boiler of approximately the same size, scrap that one out, and replace with the "new" boiler.



How does it work for you when its working? Looks like a GOOD sized fire box. How long between feedings? Does it smoke badly?



I do hope you are running it as an unpressurized vessel...



Heres a link to what my minds eye thought you were talking about. http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1347/1303494188_b0ddd92b17_z.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.flickr.com/photos/kanemoto/1303494188/&usg=__8WENlGK1ahN4Sm-ncUVYeuiKgdQ=&h=640&w=442&sz=123&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=N7yCcVyJzCkkbM:&tbnh=137&tbnw=95&prev=/images%3Fq%3DARCO%2Bboiler%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DN%26rls%3Den-us%26tbs%3Disch:1



Chances of finding an intact section for your old boiler is slim to none. Best start making alternative plans.



ME

Hightop

Works Great

It is a closed system running at 12 psig.  It ran that way in my basement for over 60 years before being retired and converted to wood.  I have three separate pressure relief valves, one on the wood boiler and two near the gas boiler.  The wood boiler has its own loop and circulator that is tied into the main loop just before the gas boiler.  I also have a separate aquastat that will turn on the house circulator if the wood loop gets above 180 so it will dump the extra heat into the house and not make steam.

Firebox will hold three wheelbarrows full of wood at a time and will burn 8 hours on the coldest nights here in Georgia.  I am heating 5200 square feet with it using deadfall from my yard.

Hightop

No Local Contractors

Being in GA is the problem.  No one down here does hydronic heat anymore.  All the local contractors wanted to yank out my radiators so I went through a mechanical contractor that did work for me in a textile mill to replace my boiler. 

Hightop

Ideal Ad

I found an ad for my boiler.  It is listed as a Ideal Gas Boiler, Product of American Radiator Company, distributed by American Gas Products Corp.  The ad is from 1927 and the date I found in my pressure/temperature gauge was 1937 so these were sold for at least a decade.  The one in the picture appears to have six burners, I think mine had seven.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190441084260&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fshop.ebay.com%3A80%2F%3F_from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm570%26_nkw%3D190441084260%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

Still hoping Santa can find me one!

Merry Christmas

Mark Eatherton

You might be able to fix what you've got....

JB Weld or Epoxy might repair the crack. So long as it is not cracked on the internal part of the casting (between flue gas sections) you could possibly clean it up with a good wire brush and seal it up with epoxy. If it doesn't work, you're not out much.



Interesting concept for sure. Caused me to lose some sleep over night thinking about the possibilities. :-)



ME

Hightop

JB Weld

Crack is on the outside of the end casting.  Made a Z shape for a total of about 40 inches of crack.  I heated the casting to 400 degrees using wood and arc welded it with nickle filler rod.  This left me with just a few pin holes which I sealed with JB Weld.  I used the boiler for a few days, but the epoxy failed and other cracks formed adjacent to the repair.  I tried more epoxy (at one point I have $50 worth built up on it) and was able to run it during our last cold spell.  We had record lows in GA a couple of weeks ago.  By the end of the week, the leaks were too bad to continue running.  Luckily, the weather warmed up so I don't mind turning the gas boiler back on.

This week I had an old welder friend bring his DC welder over and I bought another $200 worth of NiFeCl rods.  He has been welding cast iron in the textile mills for fifty years.  He and I worked on it for two days and thought we had it until it cooled down and cracked more.  In one of the pictures, you can see a 1/2" steel plate that we welded over part of the cracked section.

I also had tried brazing, but I could not get the whole casting hot enough to keep it from cracking.  I believe it could be repaired if I remove the end section and take it somewhere that can preheat it in a furnace and braze it, but I don't have any friends with that setup so it would be very expensive.

If you are interested in the details of the firebox and controls, I'd be glad to share them.

tim smith

Re: Dump the old boiler

 Try and find an old Birchfield firetube steel boiler or Pacific or Kewanee. The are a drum style boiler that last and last. Pretty much all of this type of boiler are repairable. They are pulled out of houses and building quite often. Originally they were stoker type boilers so quite fitting for wood boiler. Good luck.

Mark Eatherton

Bummer....

Sounds like you are already many steps ahead of me :-)



Please do share your controls/fire controls. I am considering obtaining an 80 to 120 gallons LP tank and converting it to a wood burning combustion chamber, then stack a used Buderus 3 pass boiler on top to exchange the flue gasses to the water to heat my mountain home. Beetle kill has made the pine extremely cheap and plentiful.



I could use a Vozelgang 55 gallon drum heater, but am worried about the drum failing, and I only want to do this once... Hence the need (want) of a thicker combustion chamber material to resist burn out. I don't intend to do any long slow smoky burns, but instead intend to do short hot clean burns with efficient heat extraction, which will be stored for use at night in my 250 gallons storage tank (used LP tank).



I intend to use a variable speed blower to enhance the combustion process, and am going to connect it to a PC based controller (ENV) that will control the blower, pumps, freeze protection etc.



Please do share. That's what this place is all about.



ME

Charlie from wmass

Did you read this thread?

http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/133861/old-wood-coal-boiler/success not sure where he is located but may be worth a look.

Hightop

More Pictures

I have added more pictures to the Flickr page showing more detail of the firebox, controls, and connection to the house system.  When I get time, I'll writeup some of the details.  Right now, I have a long Christmas Eve honey-do list to tackle.

Hightop

Fixed

Boiler is now fixed.  Thanks for everyone's help!

I gave up on finding a replacement end section so I devised a way to bypass it.  The eight sections are joined with tapered sleeves, one 3" dia at the top and two 2.5" sleeves at the bottom.  I removed the end section and had a friend cut holes opposite these sleeves in the outer wall of the end piece using a plasma cutter.  Parts of the wall were 1" thick!  I removed the sleeves and, thinking they were steel, proceeded to weld threaded union halves to them so I could fit pipes directly to the sleeves.  As soon as the first weld pass cooled on the first one I heard a pop and the pieces separated.  The sleaves were cast iron!  I then pulled out my Coleman camp stove and slowly heated the sleave to 400 degrees and welded again using NiFeCl rods.  All is well.  I reassembled the boiler sections and made new headers that now screw into the union halves.  I was able to scounge throught the basement of a 100-year-old textile mill and found a bunch of 2-1/2" and 3" tees, ells, unions, and nipples to make the headers out of.

Been running since Saturday and have already burned three truckloads of deadfall from my yard.  It has been nice to be able to turn the gas boiler off during this winter storm.

I'll add a picture soon.

Mark Eatherton

You get an A for ingenuity...

Glad you got it back up and running.



ME

Hightop

Fixed Pictures

I added more pictures to the Flickr set showing the boiler running and the house it is heating.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/44542379@N02/sets/72157625534644753/

Mark Eatherton

Oxidation...

The black iron pipe fittings on your gas back up boiler have a significant amount of rust on them. That is not normal. Make certain your floor drain has a god wet seal, and make certain that your boiler is not spilling products of combustion into the room.



If your floor drain seal is gone, place water in the trap, then pour a small amount of motor oil on top of it to keep the seal from evaporating.



What methodology do you use for determining the blower speed?



BTW, you inspired me to re-use a Buderus 3 pass boiler, along with a 55 gallon drum heater to generate biomass hot water up at my mountain home.



Thanks for the inspiration!



ME

Hightop

Rusty Fittings

Four or five years ago I had a two inch water main separate coming into my basement when the city was doing some work on the nearby water tank.  The water was more than my floor drain could handle and it submerged my boiler, water heater, a washer, and two dryers.  I quickly pumped it out and dried everything and the only noticeable affect was the rusty iron. 

When I first had the gas boiler installed and added a second clothes dryer, I installed a carbon monoxide detector nearby and it never went off.  My walls leak after a heavy rain, so the floor drain trap stays full.

Trial and error on the blower speed.  I used the specs on a commercial wood boiler as a guide and doubled everything because my heat exchanger was twice the capacity of the commercial wood boiler.  I doubled both the firebox volume and the blower cfm.  The blower is rated at 273 cfm at no restriction.  My damper is set to only partially open the inlet.  I ran it that way for three years.  I added the variable speed controller which supposedly can cut it in half.  I now run it turned all the way down and occasionally will turn it up briefly after loading some wet wood. 

I plan to add a microcontroller to monitor everything so I can check the status from my desk.  I will also have it exercise the Taco pump when the boiler gets cold while I am away.  I have to be in India next week, so I have that on my to-do list this week.

Hightop

Re: Biomass Water Heater

Have fun with the biomass water heater.  It is very satisfying if you have plenty of wood and enjoy handling it.  As someone once said, "cut your own firewood and it will warm you twice."

Just keep in mind that when you cut the blower off and close the damper, you will continue to heat the water some from the simmering wood and heated mass of the wood and firebox.  I originally did not have the extra aquastat to send heat to the house if it started to get too hot and was running 180 degree water.  I loaded up the boiler before bed one night without checking the weather.  A warm front moved in and the house never called for heat.  That was a rude awakening!  No damage as all my safety valves worked, just a lot of racket until I pushed my thermostat up to get rid of the heat.

I now run it at 160 degrees most of the time which gives me plenty of btu freeboard and have a separate aquastat set to drain excess heat to the house if it climbs to 180.  I don't think it has ever tripped, but it helps me sleep at night.

Let me know if you have any specific questions.