Please help ID my system

sbmfj

Hi,



Id like some help to Id my system. Im pretty sure its steam, but Ive read so many different things, Im not sure what it is. My furnace is oil based. Here's a pic of the furnace...

<img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/sbmfj/furnace002.jpg" alt="" />



Here's the radiator, is this the proper terminology?

<img src="http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y254/sbmfj/furnace003.jpg" alt="" />



So, what is this type of system called? Radiant heat? Hot water boiler radiators? Or is this a steam system?



Thanks soo much.



Have a good saturday!!

icesailor

System

It isn't steam, it is hydronic. If it has a circulator, it is forced hot water. A converted coal fired boiler. Replace it. Do a heat loss calculation on the building, not by the radiation. Put a oil boiler with a tankless and turn the water heater into a HW storage tank with a circulator. No sense letting a good electric hot water tank go to waste and it won't be an electric heater. If you want to do it on the cheap, get a package boiler like a Weil-McLain PWTGO-3 or 4 and it would be a one day swap if not for the asbestos remediation you will need to do.

Those radiators are cool. I've only seen them in one other house and it was a complete renovation in 1900. You need to post more pics of the system around the boiler. It must be a gravity/coal system converted to oil forced hot water.

IMO,

Steamhead

It's a hot-water system

with a radiator hookup pattern we don't see too often.



That old boiler would be called a "snowman" if it hadn't been painted silver. It looks like it's covered in asbestos which is normally white in color, hence the term. One of my Dead Men's Books says this type of boiler is no more than 40% efficient on oil. Even with a flame-retention burner like that Aero, it can't be much better. So it's time to replace it.



With asbestos abatement, that won't be a one-day swap. Doesn't look like there's much room to work in that area.



The first thing to do is have a heat-loss calculation done. This, not the radiator sizes, will determine the size of the replacement boiler.



Where are you located? From looking at the boiler I can tell it's probably somewhere in Canada.........

sbmfj

more pics....

HI,



Thanks for the comments. You guessed right, Im in Montreal, Quebec Canada.



Here are some more pics. I didnt find a circulator or pump either. I own a duplex, and actually have two of these units. I would like to upgrade to an electric units, hydro-electricity is very cheap in Quebec.



Any more info on ID the sysytem is greatly appreciated. Let me know if you need more pics as well...



side shot





overview with the 'regulator' valve (I dont know what it is really called)





another shot





front







Theres a good amount of room to work with as well, just gotta move stuff out of the way...





Thanks!!

Steamhead

So what you're saying is

in Canada, if a burner needs replacing you have to replace the entire boiler?



Most burner manufacturers sell their burners as retrofit/upgrade units, not just OEM units. They have the necessary approvals and this is covered in their manuals. What do the AHJs have to say about that?



Also, if there's no pump it is a gravity system. The expansion tank/fill valve setup shown can be used on either gravity or forced systems.

sbmfj

thanks...

So, thanks for all of your help. so we can assume that my system is a 'hydronic' one, or is it called 'forced hot water', or do both terms mean the same thing?

Essentially, Ill have to replace both, and Im more likely to choose an electric unit; this would be referred to as an "electric boiloer' correct? I now currently have 2 oil tanks (one for the ground floor appartment, and the other for the upstair appartment) to service each unit, the tanks are getting old, and need to be replaced. I feel electric units will be a better solution as I wont need an oil tank, and for rental purposes as well, as the tenat doesnt need to get an oil contract set up, its siomply added to his hydro bill....

But, and there is always a but...Im thinking of perhaps turning my duplex into a single family home (still thinking about this). If I were to go this route, I would want to merge both systems into one unit, ie one new electric boiler/unit. This would be feasible I imagine?

Another question too. Suppose I use electric boiler units (I hope I am using the right terminlogy), Is there a need for my chimmeny? I dont think so, as now, the reason I need the furnace attached to a chimney is to vent the heating oil exhaust. Is this a correct assumption? Do you need any kind of exterior vent for an electric unit?

Im gonna order one of Dans books today. Still got a loot to learn

Thanks!!

sbmfj

hydro rate, and merging question

Hi guys/gals,

Thanks for following up on my thread.

My hydro rate for the past year, is about 0.08333$/KwH; Over the past year, I have used 8060 Kwh for a total cost of 671.65$. what do you guys pay on average?

Getting back to my furnace issues, seeing that my duplex has 2 units, and I am perhaps considering turning my duplex into a single family home, will merging the two systems (ie all the piping) be feasible, and then have it run off one boiler? Would I be able to install TRV's on the radiators I have pictured at the beginning of the thread? I figure the TRV's will allow for me to control the heating allot easier, as there will only be one thermometer in the house.

Has anyone of you ever done something like this in the past? Thanks!!



Pourquoi que vous detesete les bruleurs electriques? Est ce que ces genres de systeme la on plus de probleme? Est ce que vous demeurrez au Quebec? Est ce que vous etes technicien de plomberie/chauffage?

Merci

sbmfj

efficiency

Hi,



Im trying out this oil/electric calculator, and what should I enter for efficiency for an old furnace like mine?

http://www.electric-to-oil.com/how_much.html

Jean-David Beyer

I pay ...

US$0.2012/KWh. I do not heat with electricity, and no longer do my hot water with electricity.

Jean-David Beyer

Efficiency ...

Getting out my dart board, I would say 40%. I had an oil fired boiler, and the last time they tested it, they said it was about 60%. But then they stopped testing its efficiency. As long as the chimney did not smoke, they said it was OK. They did not use an analyzer, ever. They measured the temperature in the exhaust pipe, and that was that.  But that boiler was designed to burn oil (an old GE), not a conversion from coal. And it was a hot water boiler, not a steam one.

sbmfj

you guys are awesome

thanks for all the feedback. Slo, to bad Ottawa is too far.

Im trying this calculator, and it doenst seem to make sense..

I enter 0.0833 for the hydro rate

I enter about 0.70$/litre for the heating oil

I enter 0.50% for the efficiency, and it suggests that oil is still cheaper to heat. Does that make sense?



http://www.electric-to-oil.com/how_much.html



Thanks!

Steamhead

Sounds like

the German Boiler Police have moved to Canada.