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Service manager

JohnH
JohnH Member Posts: 2
I have a potential job to replace an existing steam boiler.  After measuring the square footage of radiation I arrived with approximately 615 square feet of steam radiation, replacing boiler with a Weil Mclain steam boil equivalent to 658 square feet of steam.  The existing system is a one pipe system with 2 three inch verticle risers reduced to 2" horizontal loops, one going in one direction, one going in the opposite direction around the perimeter of the house.  At the point where the verticle steam riser pipes stop coming off of the main loops, the pipes are pitched back to the boiler for condensation return entering the boiler at the bottom with no Hartford loop, or pipe insulation on all of the piping. Do you see a potential problem leaving this system as is, replacing with a new boiler? Naturally the new boiler is a third of the physical size of the existing boiler.

Thank you 

Comments

  • Anne_6
    Anne_6 Member Posts: 37
    hartford loop

    I am no expert, just an owner of a boiler. A hartford loop is needed for a steam boiler. The old one probably doesn't have it because either it was not installed by a steam expert or it is very old and has the hartford loop inside the unit.



    May I suggest you read up on the books mentioned on this site by Holohan.
    Love my Steam heat!
  • crash2009
    crash2009 Member Posts: 1,484
    edited December 2010
    new boiler or re-pipe

    The new system should be piped as per the manufacturers instructions.  A lot of times an upgrade of the existing piping using the existing boiler can be rewarded with an excellent functioning system.  Most of today's boilers need to have a header, equaliser, and a Hartford.  Along with that, the wet returns should be replaced.  The main vents usually need an upgrade, etc.  Have a look at the following links, that suggest some things for consideration.



    1-The first thing is the main vent.  You will need 3-5 on each side, yes three to five, depending on how many lineal feet of main you have.  They need to be 15" before the drop down to the wet return.  Here is how they do it http://www.heatinghelp.com/images/posts/4848/resize_MAINVENT_ANTLER.jpg



    2-Shut off (king valves) They sure make things easier for maintenence.  Here is the link to the video. Now is the time to think about it.   http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/107/Steam-Heating/118/Steam-boiler-near-boiler-piping

    3-The drop header further helps to dry the steam.  It also aids in assembly to get the slope correct.  The drop header exceeds manufacturers specs.   http://www.heatinghelp.com/search/results/drop-header/1

    4-Insulation is a good thing, here are 2 examples, do it yourself and professional, can and should be done later http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/132995/What-type-of-pipe-insulation-should-be-used-on-the-near-boiler-piping#p1206961
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,726
    You definitely need a Hartford Loop

    and main vents. Which W-M are you using- the SGO? Also, do the two returns drop to the boiler's return connections individually, or do they tee together above the waterline? How long is each steam main (boiler to last radiator takeoff), and what pipe size?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • JohnH
    JohnH Member Posts: 2
    Service manager

    With 2 separate main steam lines, is it ok to install an equalizer pipe on one

    without the other?
  • Rod
    Rod Posts: 2,067
    edited December 2010
    Need Some Info

    Hi - I'm not quite sure what your line of thought is with this question:  " With 2 separate main steam lines, is it ok to install an equalizer pipe on one without the other?  -  The basic answer is that both risers for the steam mains need to come off the header.



    I might mention that Steamhead is a very experienced steam pro so I would highly recommend you follow his advice. If you will provide answers to his questions I'm sure he can help you out.

    - Rod
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,785
    edited December 2010
    Look at the pictures...

    You cannont install a new boiler the way the old one was piped. 



    Look at some of the links posted above and study the piping arrangments.  Here is another one.  http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/132474/Oil-vs-Natural-Gas            

    In this installation, the boiler has 2 risers, they lead to a drop header, then to the equalizer with hartford loop connection.  On the header, between the last boiler riser connection and before the equalizer drop is where the 2 steam mains should connect.  There is no alternative if you want the system to comply with the boiler manufacturer's requiarements, and if you want the boiler to work well and last for your customer.

    I concur with all that has been said on this thread so far.  You can't hook the new boiler up the same as the old...

    What boiler model are you considering?

    I was just looking at the installation manual for the EG/EGH models.  The piping requirement for the close boiler piping is perfectly clear.  You cannot improvise.  Instead of one steam connection to the header as shown, you will have 2 steam connections to the header.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
  • Dave in QCA
    Dave in QCA Member Posts: 1,785
    SGO-6 ?

    The only boiler by WM that is 658 sq ft of steam, that I can find is the SGO-6.



    They give very clear instructions on the piping.   See the manual  http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multimedia-library/pdf/weil-mclain-pdf/products/boilers/oil-boilers/sgo/sgo-boiler-manual.pdf.pdf  

    Look at page 16.  The only difference your installation will have is that you will have 2 connections from the building piping to the header instead of one.
    Dave in Quad Cities, America
    Weil-McLain 680 with Riello 2-stage burner, December 2012. Firing rate=375MBH Low, 690MBH Hi.
    System = Early Dunham 2-pipe Vacuo-Vapor (inlet and outlet both at bottom of radiators) Traps are Dunham #2 rebuilt w. Barnes-Jones Cage Units, Dunham-Bush 1E, Mepco 1E, and Armstrong TS-2. All valves haveTunstall orifices sized at 8 oz.
    Current connected load EDR= 1,259 sq ft, Original system EDR = 2,100 sq ft Vaporstat, 13 oz cutout, 4 oz cutin - Temp. control Tekmar 279.
    http://grandviewdavenport.com
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