Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

Beckett Heat Manager Fuel Economizer for STEAM #7512, comments?

Beckett Heat Manager Fuel Economizer Model 7515 for a commercial steam system... similar to the IntelliCon hot water devices that have great results but instead of monitoring the water temperature it has a steam pressure sensor.



I don't understand what this will do that a pressuretrol won't, but the manufacturer has a lot more expertise than I do and claims it'll save a lot of fuel.



Has anyone used this device for a steam system, and if so, how'd it work out? Or if you haven't what are your thoughts on this pressure monitoring device?



We're considering the Model 7515 for low pressure steam boilers shown on this page:

<a href="http://www.becketthm.com/commercial-boiler-controls/heatmanager.asp">http://www.becketthm.com/commercial-boiler-controls/heatmanager.asp</a>

Comments

  • Mike Kusiak_2
    Mike Kusiak_2 Member Posts: 604
    Economizer

    Don't know the specifics of your system, but from reading the manual the unit relies on residual pressure in the system to meet the need for a call for heat. I guess it might work if you have a large system with zone valves, where the steam demand could be supplied by existing steam without firing the boiler. This will only work if the steam pressure is considerably higher than normally used in a residential system. The low pressure economizer is rated up to 25 PSI, and requires a minimum of 4 PSI to work. This is way above the 2 PSI maximum typically found in residential systems.



    If your system is operating at system steam pressures in the above mentioned range of 4 to 25 PSI, it may work, but otherwise I don't think it is applicable to residential heating.
  • beckett steam manager

    the manual states that the economizer can sense when there is residual steam to be used  for heating without firing the burner.

    when the burner stops, the steam immediately begins to condense in the system. any residual pressure is usually from trapped heated air pockets., and there is no steam left to do any heating. they may be referring to leftover heat in the thermal mass of the radiators, which is considered useful by the tekmar control.

    at the very best, this description seems written by someone non-technical, and at the very worst, maybe this control was designed by him as well!  also do some research into tekmar 279 controls, before biting on this one!

    saving fuel in a steam system should start with the aim of:

    1. letting the air out of the pipes at the cycle start as quickly as possible at zero back-pressure, so the steam can arrive at the all the radiators simultaneously as quickly as possible.

    2. keeping the pressure down to a few ounces, as energy used to increase the pressure beyond this point is usually wasted!

    3. insulating all supply pipes, if not already done.



    only when these portions of the system maintenance have been completed, can the improvement of the control system  be considered.  these controls cannot compensate for system problems!

    just as when you order the 200 miles per gallon carburetor from popular mechanics classifieds, you must check that your brakes are not dragging, engine too large, etc, before installing it, to get the savings.--nbc
  • Clifford
    Clifford Member Posts: 5
    edited December 2010
    additional information

    It is for a small commercial application and the Burnham V905 boiler uses 4.0 GPH.



    You asked some good questions:

    1) The system does heat up fast, there are twin quick vents in the boiler room.

    2) Pressure might be high; I don't know what it should be. I think it's running at 4-6PSI satisfying the need of a three story 6000SF well insulated structure with old windows. The gauge is broken (reads from -10 to 20PDI) and I'm basing that 4-6PSI estimation by looking at the pressuretrol. What should it be at?

    3) Pipes are well insulated where called for.



    Does this device merely turn the boiler off at a preset pressure? How does that differ from what a pressuretrol can do?
  • Mike Kusiak_2
    Mike Kusiak_2 Member Posts: 604
    Boiler energy storage

    NBC is right when he says that the steam pressure will collapse quickly when the burner goes off, but this is only true at very low pressures. Say the system is operating at a pressure of 10 PSI. The boiler temperature is at that point 244F, so there is actually stored useable energy to generate steam until the water in the boiler drops to 212F. So if operating at higher pressures, steam will continue to be produced until the pressure drops to zero and the boiler temp reaches 212.



    This is the principle the economizer works on. If the system is at 10 PSI and there is a call for heat, it will hold off firing until the pressure drops to 4 PSI, using that stored energy of reducing the boiler temp by 19 degrees. As the operating pressure is reduced, the amount of energy released is corespondingly reduced and at the usual 1 PSI or so operatin pressure there is nothing to be gained.
  • Clifford
    Clifford Member Posts: 5
    response

    Am now envisioning that the Beckett device is designed for a much larger system than our V907 and won't work for us because:



    1) The V907 works at a pressure that doesn't exceed 5 and



    2) because of a wide variation in the thermostat temp being met and calling for heat (some 5 degrees) that the chance of residual pressure in the system is negligible.



    Is that correct?



    NBC mentioned pressuretrol settings... what should they be set to for a three story building that's about 6,000SF?
  • Pressure setting for 3 floor 6000 sqft

    I have 3 floors, with 55 radiators, 1050000 btu, and use a vaporstat to cut off the fire at 10 ounces. All the air has escaped through the 18 gorton #2 main vents at 2 ounces. I am sure your system would be similar.-NBC
  • Thor
    Thor Member Posts: 11
    Same unit as Intellidyne Intellicon?

    I think this is probably the same unit as the Intellicon LCS or CHS. I know Intellidyne supplies the guts of the Beckett Heat Managers sold with some forced-air furnaces.



    We're wondering about one of these on a very strange old system: a single 10MMBTU steam boiler feeding a hot-water loop circulating to 15 buildings via heat exchanger. No idea why it was built that way (the circulating loop has definitely always been hot water, never steam). We've had what may be the Intellidyne control pop up in proposals from a couple of different vendors under different product names. The system already has a heat timer; the idea is to put in the Economizer before beginning to convert to TRVs, to let it "automatically" modify the burner cycle to account for changes in load.



    I called Intellidyne last year and they were quite emphatic that at least in a system of this size, it was preferable to apply control on the steam side of the exchanger, not the hot water side. I am somewhat skeptical... I suppose I'll learn more if we follow up on any of the proposals we get.



    The Intellicon datasheets say the minimum pressure for burner activation should be set no lower than 4 PSI, for what that's worth.
  • itteledyne=intellicon=becket=200 mpg carburettor?

    the problem with these control systems is that they are marketed by sales men with little knowledge of the workings of the systems they would like to control.

    these systems will work well in certain situations, as will the 200 mpg carburator-- the velosolex moped!--nbc
  • Clifford
    Clifford Member Posts: 5
    To use or not to use

    I guess these aren't too popular around here.



    Have one in hand, NOS circuitry version 1.0 dated 2001, and am hesitating to even try it. I see no benefit if it only prevents the burner from starting if there's residual pressure remaining from the last heating cycle. This boiler gets cold between it's cycles since the thermostat allows wide swings in temperature.



    But, because of what was posted here, I will look into reducing the pressure from current the setting of 6 and thank you for you comments.
This discussion has been closed.