Reducer bushings

Luv'nsteam

I am converting two American Radiator, radiators from water to steam.  The original bushings have a one inch ID and I need to increase this to 1 1/4" (maybe 1 1/2", I need to measure).  I prefer to enlarge the bushing's ID, as they are cast iron, original and fancy.  But a quick search for a 1 1/4" FNPT tap is $120.00 and the price goes up from there!  That said, I have a couple of questions/options I would like some feed back on:

Option 1) If anyone of you professionals out there have a drill bit (1 1/2" according to the catalogue I looked through) and a 1 1/4" tap, could I send the two bushings to you and pay a fee to have them drilled and tapped larger?

Option 2) Purchase new bushings that are fancy/ornamental in the correct size.  Does anyone know where I can purchase a new or used fancy bushing?

Option 3) Any other ideas?

Thanks for any/all feedback

Regards,

Mike

crash2009

McMaster-Carr

I just found out about this place from Bob and David.  They have everything, and they ship next day.  I am not exactly sure of the part you need but here is a shortcut to a 1.5" >1.25" bushing http://www.mcmaster.com/#black-iron-pipe-reducing-bushings/=9i4dxd 

Volvoguy87

Spud?

Are you referring to the spud?  If so, you'll need a spud wrench, a new spud, possibly a heating torch, and some penetrating oil.



Just my 2 cents and of course I could be wrong,

Dave

Luv'nsteam

fancy bushing for spud installment

Crash2009, thank you for the link.  If I cannot find fancy bushings or rework the old ones, McMaster-Carr seems to be my source.



Volvoguy87, the spud will thread into the reducer bushing I am looking for.



Thank you both,

Mike

jpf321

make sure...

the proper bushing would be eccentric to allow free movement of the condensate so if at all possible, that's what you want. a good plumbing supply house may have them, i know that i once had a 5" x 4" eccentric bushing working with the friars .. boy was that an expensive fitting. 

Charlie from wmass

Eccentrics would be nice

but will not be required if you are suppling the radiator with 1 1/4". Is the radiator tapped 1 1/2"? I do not know of any source aside from a used radiator shop that may have used bushing they saved. I like Radical radiator In Everret, MA . Joel there may have some old but usable bushings. If the radiator is tapped 1 1/2" and you need to go to 1 1/4" I think a plain bushing will not even be noticed.

jpf321

sorry...

i thought the rad size was bigger than the supply side...not enough sleep i guess. 

Luv'nsteam

Clearing confusion, I hope..

Here are two pics of the radiators I am working on.  They are labeled American Radiator on the center of the end casting and Rococo above the bottom fitting.  The end view is to better show what I am trying to modify,  The side view is just to show off how they turned out.  They have been sandblasted, primed & painted.  Paint color is Hammered Copper from Rustoleum.  The reducer seems to be about 2 1/2" or 3" OD and current ID is 1".  My new supply valves are 1 1/4" and I assume (because I have not had time to measure yet), that the spuds are also 1 1/4" NPT, requiring a 1 1/4" FNPT bushing.  The bushing is still plugged from when I had them sandblasted  This is the first time I am doing this, so it is all a learning curve and I have read ALL of Dan's books on steam, as well as, nearly everything else I could get my paws on, including information from companies that make steam parts & supplies.  I still have much to learn.  : )



Thanks,



Mike

crash2009

Wow

Those radiators sure look good!  My hands are getting warm just looking at them.



I have a couple Rococo's and I never noticed that fancy detail until you pointed it out.  Here is one from room 2-A, it has that same "fancy thing" like yours.  I guess mine is a steam version. 



After having a closer look at your pictures, it looks like you have a bushing inside the fancy bushing.  If that is what I think it is, (and I am NO expert) it would be a "B" to get out.

Luv'nsteam

Painted radiator

Crash2009, much of the detail on your rads seems to be lost in the thickness of paint.  It really stands out after being sandblasted, eh?  It is a lot of work to drag them out and have the work done, but you will likely never need to do it again.  If you only have one pipe leading to your radiator, I am 99.99% sure you have steam.  If you have two pipes, it could be hot water or steam.  My system is one-pipe steam, so that is what I have studied extensively.  Thanks for the reply and the compliment. 

Regards,

Mike

jpf321

I think I was right ...

These were water rads .. with water, they don't care about condensate flow .. however in steam you do. You need to remove those fancy scrolled bushings (the hexes) and replace them with eccentrics OR depending on the rad tapping, they may be good to go without a bushing since that tapping is IPS something, perhaps even 1-1/4 which is what you are asking for isn't it?.



You should not be coming out of that 1" hole. Water will be collecting bottom of rad trapped by that lip from the full size of the rad tapping and the 1" outlet and hammer like the copper color painted on there.



If you are having trouble understanding this, get a paper cup and cut a hole dead center bottom which is about the size of a dime, now tip the cup on the side, pour in some water and try to get it to come out of the hole you cut. This is a CONCENTRIC



NOW take another cup, cut a hole the same size as first cup, however, make sure that the second hole touches one of the outer edges of the cup (not dead center as before but extreme off center) .. now tip the cup and orient the hole so that it is at the 6-o'clock position... pour in your water and see if you can trap any the cup? Nope, it comes right out of the hole .. this is an ECCENTRIC tapping.



Have a look at the ECCENTRIC REDUCERS from the Anvil Fittings catalog Page 49: http://www.anvilintl.com/SharedContent/Pdf/Literature_Catalog/Pipe_Fittings.pdf Notice how in the dimensional diagram, the bottoms are inline (allowing clear flow of material) with each other and the tops are offset.

Charlie from wmass

I believe they are tapped 1 1/2"

as said to your other post try a machine shop near you, go with a basic bushing, or try a used radiator dealer. You must remove the current bushing. I doubt a 1 1/2" x 1 1/4" concentric vs eccentric will make a difference If you find the hole is 2" it may make a difference but still the bottom of the radiator will hold water in the dirt legs so the bottom will never drain fully.

Luv'nsteam

Bushing size

Jpf, I looked at the Anvil catalogue on page 49.  Thanks for the link.  However, I would still need a short nipple, I think, to use the eccentric shown on page 49.  I looked closer at my other already-setup-for steam rads and they do not use an eccentric bushing and they will not drain 100% either because of a small reservoir in the casting below the bung for the bushing.  And yes, both of the rads in the photos are setup for water, but have the threaded holes in the correct location for air valves for converting to steam use.  And you are correct about the assertion of steam entering the rad and condensate exiting at the same time, in the same hole and the 1" hole not being large enough for this.  Per TLAOSH, 1 1/4" hole is what I need for these size radiators and one-pipe steam.



I am curious, are the spuds NPT or another thread style?



Charlie, can you recommend any used radiator places I could contact for a bushing?  After this thread, I am beginning to think a plain-Jane bushing is what I will end up with...

Thank you guys,

Mike

Charlie from wmass

Radical Radiator

Joel there saves any ornate bushings he acquires if they are in decent shape.

Luv'nsteam

Thank you

Charlie.  After I confirm sizes I will call him.



Also, are the spud threads that screw into the bushing NPT or something else?

Thank you,

Mike

jpf321

i believe

the bushing end of the spud is NPT .. the union end of the spud is different (maybe NPT union thread?) so it should be a standard NPT bushing of some sort.



You will likely need a large breaker bar (or a really big wrench) if you are going to remove that fancy scrolled bushing .. and remember to lay the rad down on it's side (the proper side) so that you are pushing down on the rad to unscrew (pushing down forming an acute angle between rad and wrench not an obtuse angle trying to lift the rad)