Need a new boiler, any opinion on Utica Boilers?

Patrick McGrath

Hello all:



You may recall me posting last year, and I appreciate all of your help, as my house began to heat quite nicely last year at a much reduced cost!



I had my boiler cleaned today, and we found a leak, albeit small, in the cast iron.  I wondered about this last year, as it took a great deal of time to get to pressure during a cycle.  Anyway, I have a Utica boiler right now (equivalent to a PEG 262C), and a heat loss calculation that was done professionally calls for  Utica PEG 187.  I have call for 143,000 BTU heating capacity, and the PEG 187 is 151,000 BTU.  The new boiler is 82% efficient as well.



<a href="http://www.uticaboilers.com/product_detail.asp?key=35">http://www.uticaboilers.com/product_detail.asp?key=35</a>



Anyway, I live close to Utica (Rochester, NY), I have run in a 15k in Utica (the Utica Boilermaker), and parts are easy to get.  I feel like I should support the local economy, but since I need to live with a new boiler for the next 15 years or more, I'd like to make a informed decision. 



My installer is partial to Utica Boilers, and his only gripe with them is that they aren't that aesthetically pleasing.



I have seen recommendations for Slantfin and Burnham in the past on the boards.  Honestly, I didn't pay much attention back then with hopes that a new boiler was not on the immediate horizon.  Ignorance is bliss.



I know this isn't going to be cheap, but at least I will not have a near piping that is both copper and incorrect.  It is my hope that it will help balance out the system...even though I have pretty much figured that out with some crazy venting schemes on some radiators.  Imagine a antler of straight Heatltimer Varivalves and you will understand my predicament!



Thanks for any help you can provide.  If you can give me any ammunition for the wife so that this is less of a sticker shock (cost savings on BTUs, etc.), that would also be appreciated.

Dave in QCA

Utica Boilers / ECR / Pennco, etc

Hi, I have a Pennco boiler, essentiall the same as the Utica JD series.  It was installed in 1975 and it's still doing fine, knock on wood!

Like Burnham Boilers, cast iron boilers from ECR / Utica / Pennco are assembled with cast iron push nipples and they also have stainless steel burners.  I can attest that my 35 year old burners still look like new. 

Rod

Gas Boilers

Hi Patrick-

   First of all thanks for helping out Ellen. Having started out myself as "a lost soul in the wilderness" (No steam pros - only knuckleheads around me) I have great empathy for those in the same situation.

  I have no experience with Utica other than comments on the wall have mentioned it is a good boiler. On a gas steam boiler-The general thought seems to be that you can get more thermal efficiency (perhaps 86% + - not officially measured) using a wet base boiler like Slantfin or Smith G-8 (in a wet base boiler, the water surrounds the fire box) in combination with a power gas burner.

 You mentioned you have sized the boiler to a measured heat loss. How does this compare to the measured total radiator EDR?  I can't remember whether your system is 1 pipe or two.

- Rod

Patrick McGrath

radiation in house

Hi Rod: 



To quickly simplify (I would post the actual heat loss documents, but they don't reflect changes that I have made, but the below does).  I am a bit above in BTUs with the Utica that we have chosen but it is the closest that I could find.  My only concern is if my pickup load should be higher than 1.3, but my guy said that should be good due to the amount of insulation in the system.  The increase in Btus also allows room to hook up another radiator where one is missing if I choose to do so in the future, but that would require a redesign of my kitchen.  The kitchen's only a few years old, so the new boiler would likely be on its last legs when we would be ready to dive in for that expense.



Sqft - 2106

Calculated load (Btu/hour at design) - 63,400



Installed EDR - 458.15

BTUs -109,956

Pickup load (1.3) - 32,987

Total load - 142,943



Boiler chosen:

Utica PEG187C - Input 187,500, Heating Capacity 151,000

Rod

2 Stage?

Hi Patrick- With the caveat that this is an area that I know little about, it would seem to me that your system BTUs are way larger than necessary for your heat loss though sized for the present/future EDR.  You've obviously done very well in the area of insulation.  Since you are using gas, I'm wondering if a modulated or 2 stage burner setup might save you a lot of fuel. You might want to run your system figures past one of the pros, Boiler Pro, Gerry Gill or Steamhead and see what they think.

Just a thought.

- Rod

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

You may want to take a look at this......

http://www.heatinghelp.com/article/11/Hot-Tech-Tips/1551/Taking-Another-Look-at-Steam-Boiler-Sizing-Methods-by-Dave-Boilerpro-Bunnell



While many knowledgable proffesionals will disagree with this, I have found it to work.  If you have two pipe steam, there should be no problem downsizing to heat load, especially if you install inlet orifices on the radiator valves to meter the steam to each radiator.

Patrick McGrath

That was...fascinating

I read your whole article, and I am a little dumbfounded.  I am the happy owner of what I term the steam heating "altar" due to my many poor purchases over time that haven't satisfied my system.  It does give me lots of options in changing things out, though.  You may recognize a few Hoffman main vents as well as a plethora of different air vents (and yes, I own four varivalve straight vents...I have some crazy solutions on my slower long main side to get steam to the rads).  I had a small area over an enclosure I made, and I couldn't think of a better use of it!



One-pipe steam is what we have.  It's been a bear due to many rads being arbitrarily moved around the house due to renovations.



I have shared your information with my guy.  Hopefully, this bears fruit.  I can see your point - fewer Btus burning, long cycles, same difference.  Does that pretty much sum it up?



Thanks for your input.



Patrick

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

I like your Alter (or is it Altar?).....

I don't see any Gorton #2's up there, so I assume they are in use.

Your summary is right on for improved boiler efficiency, however, the balancing is the key to make it work for one pipe steam.   Even if you use a radiation sized boiler, following the pattern of large main vents and small radiator vents will help get the steam everywhere in a hurry.   When looking at steam boilers, you may come across some that can be easily changed in terms of btu's.   The power burner units are the most flexible, but I have found some of the Slant Fin Galaxy units where 2 or 3 sizes may have the same number of sections, but have a different number of burners and baffles, so you can downsize inputs.  As I said in the article, I don't know where the bottom end is for boiler size versus radiation, but if you have older large column radaitors you probably have more flexibility since they hold more air and this allows the vents to be adjusted more accurately at very low venting capacities. 

Patrick McGrath

Gorton #2s

Yes, the Gorton #2s are in service.  One on the short main, three on the long main.  I just put the third one in a week ago, so that is an untested addition to the process.  My steam guy found that there was a bushing at the end of the long main where the vents were, going from 1" to 1/2" (then back up to 3/4" - it was hard to see this was happening, so it was a good catch).  I have no idea if that has been having any effect on the system, but I am sure it wasn't helping much.  Anyway, my buddy that is younger and stronger than me popped the bushing out, and I repiped it with 1" going to the three Gorton #2s.  While redoing it, I noted that an old gas line was in the way of the 1" pipe for the main vent, and the bushing actually help move the piping out of the way.  Who knows, maybe the gas line installer did that to save himself some grief.  I pulled out the old gas line, and everything went in quite nicely.



I have read of people putting upwards of four Gorton 2s on a slow main.  I may give that a go at some point if the secondary main remains slow.  Now that I think of it, I could put two of the unused Hoffman 75Hs on there and get the same effect (and put 75 bucks back in my wallet).



I doubt I will be dropping any more cash on the system, however, until I see the new boiler in action.  There is a possibility that a correctly piped boiler could solve some of these problems, and the altar is getting full as it is.



By the way, all 9 of 11 of my rads are US Radiator Corporation Capitols (the thin tube type).  I have one Florentine 3 tube in the kitchen to appease the wife.  Two were missing from that spot, so we put one there to replace it, and I went with something more ornate.  I also have on Triton bathroom radiator. 



To further complicate the issue, now that I think of it, the Triton bathroom radiator and the large radiator by the front door (pretty close to one another) are two pipe.  I have no idea why; I was told that I have a hybrid system.



Thanks for the advice.  It is well appreciated.

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Venting

I suspect if you have 3 gorton #2s on a main and it still is slow to heat, you either have a boiler problem (a hole) or too much venting on your rads.