Leaking return - Time for new boiler/

Todd_33

<span>Hi

guys,

</span>



<span>I’m in Milwaukee and have an

apartment building ( 9 unit ) with 1920s steam boiler.  I bought the building 2

years ago and the heat seemed to be ok especially after I tweaked the system

using ideas from HEATINGHELP.COM </span>



<span> One pipe system, 1,000,000

btu.

</span>



<span>I’ve got a problem with leaks near

the boiler in the returns.  It’s getting worse.  I’m afraid it may not make it

through the winter.  Actual pin holes in the pipes, not at the joints.  I think

the pipes are rotting from the inside out.  Leaks about 3 gallons very couple of

days.

</span>



<span>As it’s mid September and getting

colder I’m wondering if I should try to get through the Wisconsin winter with band aids or seriously consider

replacing the unit.  What happens if the system fails mid winter?  Is there any

way to get a quick boiler in there in the case of a mid winter

failure?

</span>



<span>If I replace it, there is asbestos

to deal with.  Also, maybe in time I’d like to convert it to a hot water system

using the same boiler to enable zone heat. 

</span>



<span>So, what do you

think?</span>

Thanks



Todd H.

Steamhead

I wish you'd posted this a month ago

I was just in Milwaukee! But I didn't get any boiler-room tours :-(



First thing to do is fix the leaking pipes. As long as the boiler itself isn't leaking, you have a good chance of getting thru the winter. Replacing that boiler is going to be a big job, and is best done in the summer.



Check the system for leaks at the air vents and radiator shutoff valve packings. Install a counter or meter on the boiler make-up water connection to monitor how much water the system is taking in.



Are you using any kind of chemicals in that boiler water?



We find that trying to convert a steam system to hot-water is a can of worms. With a one-pipe system like yours you have to run a whole new set of return lines, and then the radiators may not be able to handle hot water at all, or they may not be big enough to work with hot-water, and/or they may leak under the increased pressure that hot-water would need. Don't even think about it. Steam works just as well and its pipes won't freeze and burst.



You can zone your present system room-by-room with thermostatic radiator valves. Yes, they make them for one-pipe systems and they work well.



Southwest has some really good fares between Baltimore and Milwaukee.......

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

I second much of what Steamhead said.....

I would also look into getting the asbestos out now in the boiler room, so if a change out is necessary or coming soon, it won't be an issue.  Also, if you are getting alot of pinhole leaks, it could just be too may years without TLC or you may have an electrical problem that is rotting out pipes near the boiler.  You may want an electrician check for stray currents.   That said, I would fix the returns before winter, if possible, or keep on hand some bicycle inner tubes and hose clamps to seal the pinholes.   I would also look closely at the size of the boiler, as a million btu's is alot of heat for only 9 units.  I have got a  typical 1920's brick 13 unit building on Chicago's northside that only needs about 600 to 800,000 input.  If you've reduced the buildings heat loss, you probably have lots of room to downsize the boiler, saving on the replacement cost and cutting future fuel bills, assuming you do some careful balancing of the system.   To replace the boiler this fall, you are probably looking at about a week to a week and a half at most to "get 'er done" once things are started.   Quick midwinter boiler replacements leave you in the hands of chance.  Your chance of getting someone knowledgable in steam to replace the boiler at a moments notice are slim to none, and you'll probably end up with a job that needs to be completely redone next spring.  (I can refer you to a building owner on the north side of Chicago who had this experience.  He called me three weeks after the boiler was installed to see what could be done about the problems and a consultation revealed that the installation needed to be completely redone to the tune of thousands of dollars.)

If you can wait to replace the boiler until next year, I may have available some 90%+ efficiency steam boilers avialable by then.

Todd_33

That sounds like good advice!!

Steamhead - thanks for the reply.  I'll try fixing the leaks.  Someone suggested drilling out the pinhole, tapping it then inserting a  screw with rubber washer as a plug.  Any other ideas?



Running no chemicals.  The only info I have on running the boiler is a little intro on the controls from the on-site handyman who is no longer there and what I've gotten from this site and da books.  I seem to be doing ok ( lowered op pressure, replaced Groton vents, replaced rad vents, repacking rad valves, etc )  but missed the need for chemicals.  Any suggestions?    It's probably been leaking for years but the previous owner didn't address.  There is a very old can of some stop leak material sitting there and there was some plumbers epoxy wrapped around another area.



I've attached some pics.  It's and American Standard "firetube" maybe.  Orig coal fired, then oil, now gas.



Sorry I missed you in Milwaukee.   I think this old boiler is really a gem and would love to keep it going.  Don't know if that's real smart or real dumb.  I guess I'll try to get through winter then look hard at replacing in the spring.  Maybe I could get you out here to give an unbiased opinion.  I could use some frequent flier miles and have you take a peek.



Todd H.

Todd_33

asbestos

Boilerpro - Thanks for the reply.  Sounds like good advice re asbestos.  Know anyone up this-a-way that works good and is reasonable?  No brother-in-laws please.



I guess that stopping the leaks are the best way to go.  I wonder what the downside is if I can't stop them?  I'm thinking that they have been going on for some time (years maybe) so any damage had long been done.  Am I correct in thinking that the damage would be mainly rust in boiler and that pipes and rad prob not affected?



High efficiency, yum.  A multistage really makes my mouth water.



Todd.

Todd_33

Plugged the leaks

Just to wrap it up for now - The outside of those 2 returns had been rusting because leaks soaked the insulation and held the water there for years maybe.  I wire brushed the pipes which opened up leaks even more.  A couple were the size of a small kernel of corn and resulted in streams not drips of water.  Those I first plugged with plumbers putty, then wrapped that little area of pipe with many layers of teflon tape.  Then covered with a rubber patch held in place w hose clamp.  Seemed to be ok.  Did 6 leaks in all.



Got leaking down to maybe an inch of water on the bottom of 5 gallon bucket per day. 



I guess I'll just try to run it this way for now.  The returns are plumbed with removable fittings so may be removable in case I need emergency replacement.  The only problem might be removing the big valve end from the boiler itself.  Hopefully, I won't have the go there.



I'm talking to asbestos people now.



Thanks for the good advice.  In the spring I will probably look to a more permanent solution



Todd H.