replace supply valve

enginekeg

I need to replace a supply valve and it's good and stuck. Is there a trick to removing the old valve? I don't want to break a pipe.

Dave in QCA

what kind of supply valve?

Is this a radiator valve, boiler water valve, main steam valve, or?

enginekeg

replace supply valve

sorry for being vague - my steam knowledge is lacking. This is a radiator valve. where it connects to the radiator, the threads on the valve are stripped. i have a new valve that connects nicely to the radiator, so i need to remove the old valve from the pipe .it's not coming off. i don't want to throw my full weight into it until i hear someone say the pipe will handle it and not break. Can you help? 

JStar

Well...

...you can usually get the valves to turn with a 24" wrench. Sometimes need the 36". If the old valve is aluminum, you might wind up warping the pipe. In that case, You can carefully cut the valve away from the pipe without damaging the threads. If the old valve is heavier metal, wrench it with all you got. If the pipe breaks, you can chip it out of the fitting below. A lot more work, but not much you can do about it until it happens. 

The Steam Whisperer (Formerly Boilerpro)

Unsticking

Lots of heat can work wonders for loosening old connections.  Protect the area around and plug the hole in the floor around the pipe with heat protectors and heat with a torch.  BE Very Careful not to start anything on fire!  Soaking the joint with multiple shots of PB Blaster or similiar penetrating oil for a couple of days can also help if you don't want to use heat.  Just remember if using heat after using the penetrating oil, the oil is usually flammable, so be especially careful!

Dave in QCA

Heat is my tool of choice

I have never lost the battle with a valve yet, and have never broken a pipe off.  I usually try with an 18" or 24" pipe wrench.  If it will not budge, I remove the handle from the valve, and apply heat to the brass body of the valve, at the point that it is threaded onto the pipe.  You need to be patient.  With a propane torch, I usually heat the valve for at least 5 minutes.  The brass will expand and loosen from the iron pipe.  It is still usually difficult, and requires some effort.  But, I have always gotten those stupporn 100 year old valves to come off.   Follow all of the other advise too, and most of all be careful!  I usually keep a spray bottle, a wet rag, and a bucket of water at my side, just for the sake of safety.

Let us know how you make out!

D

enginekeg

thanks for the advice

Thanks to all - I'll give it some heat and a good pull. I'll post back with (hopefully good) results. 

enginekeg

the union will not tighten properly

Well, thanks to all who suggested heat - it worked just great. the new valve is on, but now I'm not able to tighten the union without the nut slipping. you see, the reason for this new valve was because we could not get the radiator to connect to the valve. long story, but it was leaking - unscrewed the radiator from the valve - could not get them reconnected - would not thread at all -  the valve was stripped. i think it was stripped going on a long time ago...whatever. anyway, the new valve screws onto the radiator union just fine until that last turn of the wrench...then slips back a thread or two. so now my question is...can i avoid rethreading the radiator and just apply some Teflon tape - or will that just end up leaking (which is what started all of this).



hope this makes sense....

Steamhead

The radiator union and tailpiece

is considered part of the valve, rather than a separate piece. You need to get the tailpiece out and the new one in that matches the threads on the valve. That can be fun................

JStar

Well...

Looks like it's time to replace the spud, too. One should have come with the new valve. And good luck getting those off. You can cut the nut off and get a big wrench on the spud itself. 

enginekeg

The radiator union and tailpiece

Thanks for your response. They did come as a pair - thought i could get away with replacing just the the side that screws onto the pipe. Am I out of my league on this? Do I need special tools?

enginekeg

Thread » replace supply valve

Oh no... Is it time to call a plumber? 

JStar

...

They do make a radiator spud tool. It's more useful for getting the new spud on, but not much for getting the old one out. You can try it yourself by hand sawing the nut off of the spud, and then wrenching the piece out of the radiator. Sometimes it's better to lay the radiator down if you can.

Long Beach Ed

Radiator Union Spud Removal

The reason it leaks is because the American spud end of the union that remains in the radiator and the Chinese valve you probably bought at Home Depot do not match up or the metal on the imported part is simply junk.



The spud can be cut out of the radiator using a Sawzall. 



Remove the radiator.  You cut the spud off if you have to, leaving about 1-1/2" inch sticking out of the radiator.  Then you'd slice through the wall of the spud, inserting the blade into the hole and being careful not to cut into the iron threads of the radiator. 



Usually this will weaken the spud enough that it can be wrenched out with a big pipe wrench or collapsed with a chisel and then twisted out.  Put the new spud in with pipe dope and hope you didn't damage the radiator threads.



As was mentioned above, the interior spud wrench will just break the ears off the inside of the old spud.  You should have one to insert the new spud.  It will keep the union seat from being scratched and damaged.



Or you can try finding a good quality real American valve and the union may match the old spud. There are actually three or four different bevels to the better quality American made unions. 



Your quest to pack the union with some type of sealer may work for awhile, depending on the magnitude of the leak.  The problem is that steam is quite destructive and will wear down your Teflon, silicone or packing and then your leak will return, only to go unnoticed and do damage to the floor and ceiling down the road.



Leave the import junk for the homeowners.  It frustrates them to no end trying to get that junk to work and we make lots of money ripping it out.



Best of luck.

enginekeg

...

Lots of good info here...enough to get me moving. Before I do, do you think it would be worthwhile for me to take the old valve to a REAL plumbing supply shop and see if they have a better match? 

Long Beach Ed

Worth a try

...but even here in New York only a handful of suppliers carry American products.  We order some of our materials by the case only because it is the only way we can buy certain domestic fittings and valves. 



The imports simply cause us nothing but endless headaches, as you've probably discovered.

HenryT

Long Beach Ed

Do you sell these fittings to homeowners?

archibald tuttle

can't we all just get along with the chinese comcorporatists

Hey there are americans who make junk too, and even good quality valves don't necessarily share thread pitch or dimensonal specs that allow a crossfit between the valve and spud.  As with any union, you can't depend on new halves being compatible with old halves.



When I have a sizeable job using unions I try to buy enough of the same brand so all the bits match.



But I digress.  The first thing I thought of when I saw the first question was, getting the valve off the pipe is nothin' compared to getting the spud out.



I'm with the sawzall suggestion.  It is a very touchy business not to touch the female threads around the spud. If you do, don't freak out, use a robust more setting type pipe compound.  I've got three inch fittings that I had to do the same thing in steam service that haven't leaked a drop in 15 years.



The other thing about the spud: it is more difficult to get out, partly because in order to get the heat effect to work you have more cast iron or fully surrounded steel bushing to get hot, and partly because it is so hard to grab the spud effectively and a spud wrench is of little use on a hard stuck old spud, but you can also take the radiator outside (obviously a cost/benefit decision based on how big it is and where it is located in the home) and heat it with oxy-acetelyene or oxy-propane. I've had success doing this and pulling even well galled bushings in radiators aided much by the fact that the chinese also made it affordable for me to get a vast collection of oversized 3/4" sockets, much more practical when there is a hex boss than a pipe wrench.



Speaking of which, 2 and 3' pipe wrenches are great.  I stick to American aluminums because the jaws work better, but if you've got a 14 or an 18, cheater's are where it's at.  Yaah there is a chance you could hurt the wrench but I've put my RIGID aluminums through the paces and I don't always cart the 24 and 36" along with me so they see cheaters plenty of the time.



2B (or not 2B, you decide)