New steam mini tube system installed in my own house. (Iron Fireman style)

Rod

Mini Tube System

Just wanted to bump this to the front as I've been wondering about how it's operating too.

Gerry has a lot of info on mini tube system (plus a lot more) on his website http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/

He also has a good video of the the mini tube system at this link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_wLnyul-S0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

- Rod

gerry gill

works great!

House has never been more comfortable..i've even down fired it some more. Its now heating the house at 46000 btu input..not much more than my water heater..don't know how its done on gas cause i've gotten estimated gas bills for the last six or seven months..hey, maybe they owe me money?

ttekushan_3

Let me get this straight.

EDR is based on the heat loss of the house;

The boiler is fired below the EDR;

The system is operated with "forced air" heat anticipator settings;

The boiler doesn't run any more than the 100K BTU furnace that it replaces;

You are heating a say, 1500 square foot house (1920's vintage?) with 46,000 BTU input.



So.



Why is this not being installed everywhere, both from a first cost and operating cost standpoint?! (I don't expect anyone to be able to answer this)



This is the perfect system for the "apples to apples" comparison of modern steam vs modern hydronic vs modern forced air that Steamhead has spoken of. I really think that a steam minitube system could turn out to be a real winner in both first cost and operating cost.

nicholas bonham-carter

a real reinvention of steam heating

hats off to you for this most succesful experiment!!

could a system vacuum be of benefit here?--nbc

Mike Kusiak_2

Mini tube vacuum system

Vacuum operation sounds like a great enhancement for a mini tube system. First, you are working with new, modern pipes and fittings, so maintaining a deep vacuum should be no problem. There should also be energy savings possible since under vacuum operation you would only have to heat the water in the boiler to 150F or so to begin steaming in mild weather, yet when really cold build pressure and reach radiator temperatures over 212F.



Seems like a perfect combination if the details can be worked out.

ttekushan_3

vacuum

The extraordinarily low volume of this system would be of benefit to applying vacuum, too.

MikeyB

Mini Tube

Hey Gerry I was just watching your video on your Mini Tube system, and I'm curious, could you have run your Everhot Heat Exchanger zone off a tap of your boiler below the water line instead of using the steam supply to heat the water? and why use the Electric Water Heater as a storage tank? Is it needed  for the extra volume of water for your future zones or does it prevent boiler on/off times by storing extra hot water ? Would you consider an Indirect water heater in the future? Sorry for all the questions. System looks great Gerry, thanks for sharing

gerry gill

yes, i could have done

everything you say...i was experimenting...never stop learning, you know...i probably would never do it this way for a customer...i was pushing the limits of my pea brain, thats all..

MikeyB

MiniTube

 Thanks Gerry, you contribute a great deal to this site, thanks for all you do.

Mad Dog_2

Really, Really freakin Cool guys

Love it Gerry and Steve.  Mad Dog

Kevin_in_Denver_2

Vacuum could take the boiler efficiency from 80% to 98%

A condensing boiler can be used for the heat source if you employ a steam generator of some sort. Vacuum could take the boiling temperature right down to the sweet spot of today's condensing boilers. The steam generator could be a partially filled sidearm water heater, with boiler water circulating thru the coil.



The water in the sidearm could be rapidly boiling away at 140F, but the condensing boiler would still be in it's desired pressure range, say 12psi.

ed wallace

mini tube system

can this minitube system be used with cast iron radiators and where do i get more information

gerry gill

Ed

not if you want to use mini tube as the return pipes cause the rust would clog the 1/8th inch openings..thats why the system was originally designed to use select temp heaters and copper convectors.

ed wallace

mini tube system

thats to bad it cannot be used wih old cast iron radiators I have a customer who would like to have his old paul system restored and have no idea where to find a vacumn pump for it

nicholas bonham-carter

1-pipe plus mini-pipe system

as ttekushan has suggested,

"I also have to wonder if this isn't a pretty good solution to single pipe system conversions as well, where you could run 3/8" OD to a single pipe radiator's vent tapping (drilled & re-tapped if necessary) and use the existing supply piping for return. No traps. Re-size that boiler for the heat loss and away you go! Just a thought, since we're breaking the rules as it is.--terry "

couldn't the paul system be converted to a vent feed from a mini-tube? isn't it just a modified 1-pipe? in the vent hole, and out the old supply! would it still be necessary to size a replacement boiler on the radiation?

kevin's idea of the condensing boiler operating the system at sub-atmospheric pressures is most interesting!--nbc

Steamhead

If you increase the size of the returns

you'd probably be OK. The opening thru a trap is probably 1/4" or so, you could make the returns the same size as the supply and they shouldn't clog up. 

Scot B

Bumping this one!

Thought I'd bump this to see how the system is working. Just out of curiosity!

gerry gill

workin great!

this season i did take the thermostat cycle rate from 1 to 6 tho which made the place even more comfortable..the system doesn't cycle on pressure anymore, and the rooms have more even temps..the forced air setting seems to work better on low mass steam systems i've noted.

EBEBRATT-Ed

Iron Fireman System

Pretty amazing. I saw one of these systems years ago in a church in Hartford, Ct. It had all cabinet heaters with steam coils and the fans were turbine type and they worked pretty well. The coils were dirty (air side) and the fan bearings needed cleaning and oiling, basically that was all that was wrong--a little cleaning and the system worked pretty well. It had a pressure regulator on the end of the steam main to maintain pressure as I recall.

Ed

Kevin_in_Denver_2

Torcelli Vacuum comes free in a closed system

Then at every high point you'd have a Hoffman #60680074.

With those, the vacuum would be re-established with every heating cycle.



And if I'm thinking correctly, the steam generator just needs to be about 40 inches above the basement floor. Then you run a hose from the boiler drain to the floor and fill the system. Once the system is full, and most of the air is removed, then you open the boiler drain and remove water until it stops flowing.



At that point, you've established a good enough vacuum (40"H2O) to boil water at about 100F. I don't think you can pull a vacuum directly on a modern hydronic boiler because it has a low pressure cutout.

SteamCoffee

Any updates?

Wondering if there are any updates? How are the gas bills? What would you have done differently? and most important, how comfortable is the house! Thanks

Mad Dog_2

Hey guys. not sure how I stumbled on this thread, but I see its from 5 years back...whats the latest on this reeeel cool......system? Have you put out an article or book on it, Gerry? Mad Dog

Mad Dog_2

Gerry: do you have a nice schematic of this set up? I cant wait to do one now! Mad Dog