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New steam mini tube system installed in my own house. (Iron Fireman style)

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Comments

  • Rod
    Rod Posts: 2,067
    Mini Tube System

    Just wanted to bump this to the front as I've been wondering about how it's operating too.

    Gerry has a lot of info on mini tube system (plus a lot more) on his website http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/

    He also has a good video of the the mini tube system at this link.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_wLnyul-S0&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

    - Rod
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    works great!

    House has never been more comfortable..i've even down fired it some more. Its now heating the house at 46000 btu input..not much more than my water heater..don't know how its done on gas cause i've gotten estimated gas bills for the last six or seven months..hey, maybe they owe me money?
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • ttekushan_3
    ttekushan_3 Member Posts: 958
    Let me get this straight.

    EDR is based on the heat loss of the house;

    The boiler is fired below the EDR;

    The system is operated with "forced air" heat anticipator settings;

    The boiler doesn't run any more than the 100K BTU furnace that it replaces;

    You are heating a say, 1500 square foot house (1920's vintage?) with 46,000 BTU input.



    So.



    Why is this not being installed everywhere, both from a first cost and operating cost standpoint?! (I don't expect anyone to be able to answer this)



    This is the perfect system for the "apples to apples" comparison of modern steam vs modern hydronic vs modern forced air that Steamhead has spoken of. I really think that a steam minitube system could turn out to be a real winner in both first cost and operating cost.
    terry
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    a real reinvention of steam heating

    hats off to you for this most succesful experiment!!

    could a system vacuum be of benefit here?--nbc
  • Mike Kusiak_2
    Mike Kusiak_2 Member Posts: 604
    Mini tube vacuum system

    Vacuum operation sounds like a great enhancement for a mini tube system. First, you are working with new, modern pipes and fittings, so maintaining a deep vacuum should be no problem. There should also be energy savings possible since under vacuum operation you would only have to heat the water in the boiler to 150F or so to begin steaming in mild weather, yet when really cold build pressure and reach radiator temperatures over 212F.



    Seems like a perfect combination if the details can be worked out.
  • ttekushan_3
    ttekushan_3 Member Posts: 958
    vacuum

    The extraordinarily low volume of this system would be of benefit to applying vacuum, too.
    terry
  • MikeyB
    MikeyB Member Posts: 696
    Mini Tube

    Hey Gerry I was just watching your video on your Mini Tube system, and I'm curious, could you have run your Everhot Heat Exchanger zone off a tap of your boiler below the water line instead of using the steam supply to heat the water? and why use the Electric Water Heater as a storage tank? Is it needed  for the extra volume of water for your future zones or does it prevent boiler on/off times by storing extra hot water ? Would you consider an Indirect water heater in the future? Sorry for all the questions. System looks great Gerry, thanks for sharing
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    yes, i could have done

    everything you say...i was experimenting...never stop learning, you know...i probably would never do it this way for a customer...i was pushing the limits of my pea brain, thats all..
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • MikeyB
    MikeyB Member Posts: 696
    MiniTube

     Thanks Gerry, you contribute a great deal to this site, thanks for all you do.
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,831
    Really, Really freakin Cool guys

    Love it Gerry and Steve.  Mad Dog
  • Kevin_in_Denver_2
    Kevin_in_Denver_2 Member Posts: 588
    Vacuum could take the boiler efficiency from 80% to 98%

    A condensing boiler can be used for the heat source if you employ a steam generator of some sort. Vacuum could take the boiling temperature right down to the sweet spot of today's condensing boilers. The steam generator could be a partially filled sidearm water heater, with boiler water circulating thru the coil.



    The water in the sidearm could be rapidly boiling away at 140F, but the condensing boiler would still be in it's desired pressure range, say 12psi.
    Superinsulated Passive solar house, Buderus in floor backup heat by Mark Eatherton, 3KW grid-tied PV system, various solar thermal experiments
  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
    mini tube system

    can this minitube system be used with cast iron radiators and where do i get more information
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    Ed

    not if you want to use mini tube as the return pipes cause the rust would clog the 1/8th inch openings..thats why the system was originally designed to use select temp heaters and copper convectors.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • ed wallace
    ed wallace Member Posts: 1,613
    mini tube system

    thats to bad it cannot be used wih old cast iron radiators I have a customer who would like to have his old paul system restored and have no idea where to find a vacumn pump for it
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    1-pipe plus mini-pipe system

    as ttekushan has suggested,

    "I also have to wonder if this isn't a pretty good solution to single pipe system conversions as well, where you could run 3/8" OD to a single pipe radiator's vent tapping (drilled & re-tapped if necessary) and use the existing supply piping for return. No traps. Re-size that boiler for the heat loss and away you go! Just a thought, since we're breaking the rules as it is.--terry "

    couldn't the paul system be converted to a vent feed from a mini-tube? isn't it just a modified 1-pipe? in the vent hole, and out the old supply! would it still be necessary to size a replacement boiler on the radiation?

    kevin's idea of the condensing boiler operating the system at sub-atmospheric pressures is most interesting!--nbc
  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 16,796
    If you increase the size of the returns

    you'd probably be OK. The opening thru a trap is probably 1/4" or so, you could make the returns the same size as the supply and they shouldn't clog up. 
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Towson, MD, USA
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • Scot B
    Scot B Member Posts: 26
    Bumping this one!

    Thought I'd bump this to see how the system is working. Just out of curiosity!
    wood fired one pipe steam, free from the oil man!
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    workin great!

    this season i did take the thermostat cycle rate from 1 to 6 tho which made the place even more comfortable..the system doesn't cycle on pressure anymore, and the rooms have more even temps..the forced air setting seems to work better on low mass steam systems i've noted.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • EBEBRATT-Ed
    EBEBRATT-Ed Member Posts: 15,455
    Iron Fireman System

    Pretty amazing. I saw one of these systems years ago in a church in Hartford, Ct. It had all cabinet heaters with steam coils and the fans were turbine type and they worked pretty well. The coils were dirty (air side) and the fan bearings needed cleaning and oiling, basically that was all that was wrong--a little cleaning and the system worked pretty well. It had a pressure regulator on the end of the steam main to maintain pressure as I recall.

    Ed
  • Kevin_in_Denver_2
    Kevin_in_Denver_2 Member Posts: 588
    Torcelli Vacuum comes free in a closed system

    Then at every high point you'd have a Hoffman #60680074.

    With those, the vacuum would be re-established with every heating cycle.



    And if I'm thinking correctly, the steam generator just needs to be about 40 inches above the basement floor. Then you run a hose from the boiler drain to the floor and fill the system. Once the system is full, and most of the air is removed, then you open the boiler drain and remove water until it stops flowing.



    At that point, you've established a good enough vacuum (40"H2O) to boil water at about 100F. I don't think you can pull a vacuum directly on a modern hydronic boiler because it has a low pressure cutout.
    Superinsulated Passive solar house, Buderus in floor backup heat by Mark Eatherton, 3KW grid-tied PV system, various solar thermal experiments
  • SteamCoffee
    SteamCoffee Member Posts: 123
    Any updates?

    Wondering if there are any updates? How are the gas bills? What would you have done differently? and most important, how comfortable is the house! Thanks
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,831
    Hey guys. not sure how I stumbled on this thread, but I see its from 5 years back...whats the latest on this reeeel cool......system? Have you put out an article or book on it, Gerry? Mad Dog
  • Mad Dog_2
    Mad Dog_2 Member Posts: 6,831
    Gerry: do you have a nice schematic of this set up? I cant wait to do one now! Mad Dog