The best energy investment

SpeyFitter

I have a pet peeve I want to get off my chest.

But I'll get to that in a sec. Some background info....

I work for a company that does a lot of high end homes with radiant floors and at least a high efficiency mod con or a geothermal  Heat Pump with mod-con back up or supplementation, as well as the mod-con doing the indirect DHW load.

So we install these cutting edge heating systems, that have control panels so sophisticated that you just open the door, and then shut it right away after staring at all the control relays, fuses, switches, time delay relays, A419's, and a myriad of control wires inside because it can be complicated (we have a controls division, put it that way).

Anyways, these geo systems - cost a lot to install. The Hydron Modules we use, VERY nice stainless steel cabinet, very heavy, & heavy duty compressors, relatively quiet for a heat pump, and great looking too. Very efficient systems.

But I can NOT for the life of me understand why we install these systems in houses with AVERAGE INSULATION!

No matter what anyone tells you, the most efficient investment into energy payback is a solid building envelope. It requires little to no maintenance and has an immediate payback. The builders generally don't no **** other then putting bare bones insulation in, most even neglect slab insulation and when you try and tell them about the importance of it they look at you like a deer in the headlights and then walk away.

The significant financial investment to upgrade to a geo system over say just as mod-con for radiant floors could be easily spent on a more heavily insulated house with less air infiltration & heat losses this way (with an HRV or ERV of course to replace stale indoor air and recover most of the heat lost).

As a guy who works for a heating contractor, I don't make any $$$ recommending more insulation over a more sophisticated heating system, I guess to me it just makes more sense.

Are these geo systems just a feel good measure? Sometimes I really think so.

JStar

...

You can't see insulation working. Once it's in, it's out of mind. I think people like spending money on products they can experience, or that makes a change to their every day lives (ie: less noisy heat pump, better air flow).

Gordy

Incentives

 You get 30% with a 1500.00 cap on insulation, and new construction does not apply. You get a 30% no cap on geothermal. I think the tax credit system needs improving. The tried, and true methods need to be no capped.



Gordy

Gordan

A house that uses more energy...

...will save more when you install a cheaper/more efficient method to deliver that energy. Not all homes can be feasibly insulated to a reasonable degree. Some would require an insane amount of work (and cost) to add a meager amount of insulation. But I agree with you that that's the most common-sense measure for those to whom it's available.



I would think that the added cost of a bigger system, particularly with geo, would be sufficient incentive to insulate. So, you could argue, in the hands of a competent contractor the geo incentive translates into a powerful incentive to insulate.

Royboy

you right!

as a renewable energy (solar) "specialist" I always tell folks that the general rule is the best place to focus/invest is:



1) conservation of energy

2) energy efficiency

3) renewables



in that order. that's a generalization, of course. best to do all 3. but starting at 3) without going through your 1) & 2) options is not a very smart way to proceed.