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V-stat, p-trol, two gauges

Luv'nsteam
Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 272
I will be installing the pressuretrol and pressure gauge that came with my new Peerless WBV-03 steam boiler.  I will also be installing a vaporstat and low pressure gauge with a gate valve to keep them safe when I blow down the boiler under pressure.



My question is about installing both switches and gauges.  From Peerless, they supply a six inch horizontal nipple with a tee at the end.  The side port of the tee has the pigtail and the other end of the tee receives a bushing and the gauge screws directly into this, remaining horizontal with the nipple. 



Below is my drawing of what I would l like to do. While my drawing is not great, I will orient the pigtails correctly so they do not interfere with the operation of the pressure switches.  Does this look ok, or do I need to change something/anything/everything?



Thank you,



Mike

Comments

  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,456
    peerless vaporstat mounting

    why not join the horizontals at both ends under the gauges [above the pigtails] and v-stat/p-trol, so you have less likelihood of 1 pigtail clogging and causing the v-stat to not feel the pressure? make sure the height of the vaporstat, etc. is well above skimming height, and use unions wherever possible to facilitate later dismantling.

    when you are blowing down the boiler, why would the pressure be any different than during normal operation?--nbc
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 272
    Blow down pressure,

    According to Dan, in Greening Steam, should be around ten pounds.  This is way to much pressure for the vaporstat and gauge.  That is the reason for the isolation valve.  Close each king valve (isolating from header, each main), close the return valve (isolating the return form the boiler), close valve that isolates vaporstat and gauge, crank up the pressure to ten pounds and open the mud leg valve.  Viola! all mud and debris is blown out of the boiler for long-term survival of the boiler.  I intend on operating this boiler on vapor, not "pressure".



    Your picture is interesting.  What is on the right side, the brass thingy (technical term for the newbies : )  )? 



    On my boiler, there is one bung or boiler tapping, for the pressuretrol and gauge.  This is why I want to configure the pressure switches & gauges the way I drew them.  I have no problems using two 45*s or a tee and short nipple to raise it all up.  However,  the p-trol port is already above the skim port, so that is not an issue.



    Did I answer all of your questions, Nicholas?



    Thank you,



    Mike
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,456
    blowdown pressure

    i still can't see how the pressure of the boiler can be raised to 10 psi temporarily for blowing down, or the benefit. the idea of blowing down is to release the dancing solid at the base of the boiler, during boiling. i can't see the benefit of using temporarily elevated pressure for this purpose, although in the days of coal, the methods of cleaning the boiler were more flamboyant with higher pressure, but of course, there were not the main line vents to be destroyed by pressures higher than 3 psi!

    in my tree of gauges and vaporstat, there is only one connection to the boiler at the bottom horizontal. even though it is my basement, i can't think what that yellow reflection is from. --nbc
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 272
    edited March 2010
    Acheiving ten psi

    in the boiler is done by first closing the king valve(s), separating the boiler from the main(s); closing return valve, separating the boiler from the return; and then adjusting the pressuretrol to allow ten psi.  If your boiler has a vaporstat and vapor gauge, these must be isolated from the boiler as well. 

    As soon as ten psi is reached, you open the boiler mud leg and let the pressure push out the nasty stuff at the bottom.  If you use gravity alone, you will not have a very clean boiler.  A 28" static column of water only exerts about one psi, not enough pressure to perform a good cleaning.



    I am not sure what you mean by the yellow reflection in your picture.  At the very bottom of the picture is a horizontal pipe.  On the left, the pipe goes into a tee and then up to what appears to be another tee, attached to the pressure gauge, nipple for boiler tapping and up to a pigtail and continues from there.  On the right side of the tee at the very bottom of the p-trol, there is a short nipple that leads right and that leads into a brass fitting of some kind.  Is this brass thing the pressure relief valve, on the same piping as your pressure switches & gauges? 



    Thank you,

    Mike
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,456
    control piping

    if you look on this page

    http://www.peerlessboilers.com/Resources/Literature/TechnicalInformation/IOMManuals/tabid/86/Default.aspx

    and open the

    [u][color=#0000ff]IO&M Manual - Series 211A Steam [/color][/u]

    to page 33-35, you will see the original piping for my boiler, which i modified by adding the 2 pigtails, and manifold. this means that the 2 pigtails have to get plugged up before things cease to function.

    good luck with your high pressure blow down, and let us know how it works.--nbc
  • Charlie from wmass
    Charlie from wmass Member Posts: 4,182
    10 PSI blow downs

    These should only be done when king valves and return valves are installed. Otherwise you will ruin many hundreds of dollars of otherwise good steam vents. High pressure blow downs are fine just make sure all your weaker links are protected.
    Cost is what you spend , value is what you get.

    cell # 413-841-6726
    https://heatinghelp.com/find-a-contractor/detail/charles-garrity-plumbing-and-heating
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,456
    high pressure blow down

    i wonder if there could not be an unfortunate result to this sort of blow down with to-days thin wall boiler sections.

    to take a fully firing boiler, and suddenly empty the water out could give a thermal shock to the metal of the sections, suddenly going from 212 deg wet [even heat]  to perhaps [even with the fire off] 212 deg. dry [uneven heat]. if you have the appropriate valves installed, why not use water pressure from the feed instead, or open up the lowest tapping, and rake out the mud from there?

    at any rate we will soon see what the result is of your blow down, and i hope it works.--nbc
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 272
    edited March 2010
    ten psi blowdown

    Nick, I will let you know how turns out.  Since I have been using a wood stove to heat my home for the last three years, my new boiler is still not installed.  However, after I confirm my piping of the pressure switches and gauges is OK, I will finish gathering my list of materials and begin installation.  I am also adding four radiators, piping for all four, main vents, a riser vent and replacing all of the returns, dry & wet.  I may not have need for a good blow down until end of next season, but time will tell and I will likely do it once after running the boiler for the first week anyway.

    Ten pounds should not hurt the boiler.  Per MFG instructions, it should be pressure tested to 30 psi, three times the blowdown pressure.





    Thank you,

    Mike
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 272
    modified piping

    It looks good, Nick. However, I am still curious what the brass thing is at the lower right of the picture. Is it a gate valve??





    Thank you,



    Mike
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