Who's using what for 1.5M BTU commercial boilers

Steve Ebels_3

I have a school that has requested some budget numbers for replacing a boiler in the 1.5 million btu range.  Currently they have a pair of PK that fire at 1.2. One of them is in good shape and the other is toast.......burned toast. They are very tight on budget so I am planning on leaving the decent one in place and replacing the dead one with a

modulating-condensing type unit to serve as the base load unit. Through working there over the last few years I know that they only need the second boiler when the temp is near design.

Space is a real consideration as the room is engineered around the P-Ks which have a very small footprint.  I'd love to use Viessmann's big condenser but there is no way to get it into the room with out taking out part of a block wall and a door.

  I've been looking at Lochinvar's Sync boiler as it would integrate nicely with what is there but I'm wondering what you guys have used and what you've had good success with.

CMadatMe

Recently Did A School

We used 3 Vitodens WB2B-105's with Vitotronic 100's and cascade control. Worked out like a champ. We wanted to use the manifold system but at the time it was not avail for the new 200's. Priced it out with and without the manifold system. The labor savings alone makes it a wash.



I would use the mod/cons as my fall, spring, warmer winter temp day boiler and have the beast that is there for those real cold design days. Best of luck

Michael Wagoner_2

lochinvar knights

we're going to be installing two lochinvar knights kbn600's, but they do make the larger units and you cannot beat a 350lb boiler...1.5mil btu is quite larger but how often will they truly need that many btu's--might be better off using multiple smaller ones with the built in step firing.

Steve Ebels_3

Design load

Heat load at design is a little over 2M btu. I'm thinking from observing how the system runs, that I can pick up 80-85% of the conditions with a single modulating 1.5M  unit. The Sync will turn down 10:1 because it is basically a pair of Knights in one cabinet. How have the Knights been holding up for you guys that have them in commercial applications?

tom_49

Vito 200

We just install 2 Vitodens 200 /105 in a large apartment complex. those were my 1st Vito 200 with the Vitotronic 100  control platform. Cascade control as well. job went off w/o a hitch. boilers purring away. We did another apartment job about 4 yrs ago with 4 Lochinvar KBN285's , no problems there either.

we also installed a couple of wilo stratos pumps to replace the 1600's in there. Amp draw went from 12.2 amps to .8. they are going to have a big savings in electricity too.

eluv8

boiler choices

I can think of a couple of options.



PK makes the Mach condensing boiler and the new control is set up for condensing and non condensing applications. Its a little heavy in the 1.5 configuration however it comes with wheels and it fits through a doorway. Only problem with going with the Mach is that the inhibitor package would have to be flushed in the system and converted to aluminum safe due to the aluminum block.



We recently started using the Hamilton Evo boilers, very similar to the Lochinvar line. However they utilize the trio heat exchanger on the larger models so its only 1 heat exchanger with 2; 5-1 turndown burners. We have a 2 million in a school right now working with an old Kewanee boiler. Even with 130-135 returns and a 20 degree delta t the school has seen significant savings, with an estimated return on investment around 4 years including installation costs. The biggest problem with the Hamilton line seems to be the somewhat limited distribution.

Steve Ebels_3

Others............

Aerco Benchmark? Anyone with some real world experience with these?

eluv8

Aerco

I have seen quite a few Aerco boilers over the last year or so, the 3 millions seems to have touched something with the engineers. Efficiencies seem to drop off as the return temps climb. I have not personally installed but have heard from contractors in the field that they have had some problems and are also looking for alternatives. Also worth mentioning is the ones I have seen have made a whinning noise which makes it difficult to talk to someone in the mechanical room so if noise is an issue you may want to try and listen to one in operation.



Several schools I am aware of have Aerco boilers in operation and they seem to be happy with them.

Bart Vaio

Riverside

The riverside Primera has been working well for us in the non condensing 86% range and the RayPak X-therm for a bit higher eff in the condensing range 92% to 98%.

PS_2

Energy Savings

RBI (made by Mestek) has a full line of some really nice, small footprint, affordable boilers. My company has installed several and these projects went very well. Check out the Futura Fusion III line for mod-con applications.

We've also installed the Knights and they have worked out very well too.

Paul Pollets

Vertomat??

The Vertomat (or the VitoCrossal) won't fit? It has a small footprint...

Steve Ebels_3

That would be my first choice

There are major problems with access to the boiler room due to the height of the Verto. We would basically have to take out a section of wall to get it in there which is unacceptable to the client.  

bill garnett_2

1.5

We represent Lochinvar and 2 boilers is always better than one, the Sync series (2 knights in one skin) have btu inputs of 1.0, 1.3 and 1.5. We have done retro-fits and many times the original boiler was oversized (imagine that) Do a heat calc or radiation load. We have seen big savings on fuel usage retrofitting with Knights and Syncs. Brunner P&H in Windsor, Colorado has done alot of these.

tim smith

I am just finishing 3 TT prestige 399s as replacement

Replacing 1.6 million total including dhw boiler with 3 new TT prestige 399 boilers, Grundfos Magna for main circulator and Heattimer staging control and flat plate heat x for potable. Pretty nice layout. Tim

flange

triangle too

yeah, i like the triangles as well. we have done two small schools this year, both originally had a weil mclain 74 at 1.5 mil, and we replaced them with three triangle tube 399's as well. the last one is setup primary secondary with seven zones, two of which are air handlers, the rest fan coils. the owner is loving the improved comfort over the old setup running 180 degree water all year, and also the energy savings, which amounted to 1500 bucks the  first two months.