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Air vents: what would you do?

I have the excellent steam capacity chart from Steve Pajek and Gerry Gill.  In crunching all of the numbers, Gorton air vents are more desirable, as they have more to choose from that equal the air venting rates I want.  However, I have a friend who is getting me all of the vents I need at wholesale and he only deals with Hoffman.  Even at max adjust, the Hoffmans do not vent the same rate as the Gortons.  This may require a doubling of Hoffmans on some rads.  So, should I stick with the Hoffmans or spend the retail bread for Gortons?  Keep in mind, using the Gortons, I need 18 air valves (2 for mains, 2 for king risers, the rest for radiators).



Thank you,



Mike

Comments

  • jpf321
    jpf321 Member Posts: 1,567
    i would...

    go to a good well established local plumbing supply house and price the gortons and hoffmans and compare those prices with the good deal you are actually getting from your friend .. and then weigh the cost difference... and total install cost difference (total hoffmans cost vs. total gortons cost)
    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC

    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph

    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains

    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 272
    edited February 2010
    Ok, I did the math

    and, using pexsupply.com for the prices, the retail cost of the Gorton's is around $278.00 and does not require any doubling.  Using the Hoffmans, NOT doubled (one air vent per radiator) to almost equal the rate of the Gorton's, is about $162.00 (with my friends discount).  However, in sticking with my calculations, and therefore doubling the Hoffman's for 11 radiators, the cost is about $250.00 plus all of the additional work to drill and tap 11 radiators.  While I like the idea of saving denaros, the cost of time seems high for doubling the Hoffmans even with my discount.  So for just another $28.00 I do not have to drill & tap any rads.



    Jpf, I am not sure why I didn't think of doing this first (ok, I do: my wife says I over think everything.  D'oh!), but thanks for pointing this out.



    I guess my next question is about quality.  Who makes a better vent, Gorton or Hoffman?  Are they both made in these United States of America?  Does one last longer then the other?  Anyone have any input on this question?



    Thank you,



    Mike
  • Brian_74
    Brian_74 Member Posts: 237
    My experience

    I just purchased 3 Gorton #2 vents through PexSupply. So far, I've been happy with PexSupply's customer service, although the final word won't be in until the credits are squared away. As you might have guessed, I've had the same experience with Gorton #2 as others on the Wall have had recently. Of the two I ordered, one was DOA and the other died in a day or two. The replacement was also DOA. I don't think there's anything wrong with my system as the Hoffman's on the antler are still working just fine.



    Not sure if this will help, but at least it's another data point.
    1929 Ideal Heating vapor system.
  • jpf321
    jpf321 Member Posts: 1,567
    i have all gortons...

    14 rads, 5 main vents .. only 1 gorton #2 seems to leak slightly on blow-test .. but it seems fine in operation. i got most of my vents from PEX .. then when they were backordered, i got them from my local supply house for about $2 less for each rad vent ..



    i am a bit confused however, why would you need to drill/tap rads for hoffman and not for pex? AFAIK, all rads are tapped for 1/8th NPT .. and either Gorton or Hoffman should screw right in. Maybe I'm missing something. Oh I think I get it .. you want to add perhaps 2 hoffmans to a single rad and therefore you would need to tap the second location .. whereas the Gorton D may be equal to 2 hoffmans and therefore you can use a single vent.
    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC

    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph

    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains

    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 272
    edited February 2010
    Reason for two Hoffmans

    Jpf, you are indeed, correct.  When comparing the air venting capacity of each air valve against the needed venting for each radiator or each rad and connecting pipe (where venting the riser or run-out is not the best option) I can use one Gorton or two or even three Hoffman's.  I have no desire to drill and tap two holes in any radiator.



    As for the G#2's not working correctly, this morning I spoke with Ken at Gorton.  He informed me that the problem with the DOA G#2's was a shipping issue.  Apparently they were treated roughly in transit and the needles got stuck in their seat or the float was knocked off its perch.  In any case, it was shock damage (read: handle your valves carefully) and has been addressed.  As for pexsupply.com, while Ken admits he sends customers there for their low prices, he has heard their customer service is not always what it could be.  And, that Gorton does not sell directly to pexsuppy.com, therefore Gorton does not know pex's inventory or source for Gorton vents.  I want to add, when I was with talking Ken, it was like talking with a long-standing good neighbor and he instilled confidence in me that Gorton stands behind their products and will do whatever is reasonable to remedy any issue that may arise.  He also told me Gorton air vents are made in New Jersey.  Note: while searching for Gorton on google, I came across a Chinese company that boasts they will gladly manufacture gorton #2's for anyone!  Notice the "g" in gorton is not capitalized, as it is with the Gorton valves made in the good ol'e USA?



    As for Hoffman (and in my very limited experience with them), I have never had a problem with them, most of the Hoffman 1A's on my rads are much older than fifteen years old and the few that failed, seemed to fail for problems with my water, not the valve.  However, I have placed a call to ITT and am awaiting a return call about what country their vents are manufactured in.  I am curious to know, but am not confident I will receive a call back.  We shall see...



    Jpf, Brian and Mark S., thank you all for your input.



    Mike



    EDIT: I am pleased to let you all you know, two things: one, Hoffman called me back!  This rarely happens anymore.  Also, Hoffman valves are indeed, made & tested in the USA,  although raw materials may or not be sourced domestically.  Mike
  • jpf321
    jpf321 Member Posts: 1,567
    1-pipe Homeowner - Queens, NYC

    NEW: SlantFin Intrepid TR-30 + Tankless + Riello 40-F5 @ 0.85gph | OLD: Fitzgibbons 402 boiler + Beckett "SR" Oil Gun @ 1.75gph

    installed: 0-20oz/si gauge | vaporstat | hour-meter | gortons on all rads | 1pc G#2 + 1pc G#1 on each of 2 mains

    Connected EDR load: 371 sf venting load: 2.95cfm vent capacity: 4.62cfm
    my NEW system pics | my OLD system pics
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 272
    edited February 2010
    Gorton supply for pexsupply.com

    That is in interesting thread, jpf.  Knowing how so many corporations hide behind one another (called asset protection), it is conceivable to me that pex may order from Gorton, but under a different corporate name.  This would explain why Ken does not know where pexsupply.com gets there Gorton vents from.  And from Gortons perspective, as long as the corporate customer pays on time, who cares who they really are or what the name of their retailer is?  I am still thinking Gorton is the way to go.  If I do have an issue, I will drive it to Gorton.  Who knows, maybe I will get really lucky and get a tour of the plant!  Now that would be cool!



    Thank you,

    Mike
  • TomM
    TomM Posts: 233
    drill the port?

    What about taking off the adjustable cap and drilling the port bigger?  I've been wondering about doing that for awhile.

    .

    maybe i'll cut a valve in half to see if it can be done successfully.

    -TomM
    beautiful Conshohocken PA
  • Luv'nsteam
    Luv'nsteam Member Posts: 272
    Modifing a Hoffman for

    more air flow.  Interesting idea.  Please let us know if that works. 



    A word of caution, Hoffman's are made of stainless steel, not the easiest to work with unless you have the correct cutting tools.  Cobolt works well when working stainless.  Just a thought.



    Thank you,



    Mike
This discussion has been closed.