Neatest cleanest way to relocate circulator and Extrol tank?

TMcD

I've had lots of air gurgling problems off and on since my house was built in 2002 and I'd like to take the bull by the horns and move the hydronic circulator and expansion tank.  Currently the circulator is on the return side of the boiler and the expansion tank is on the supply side.  The pictures I'm attaching look kind of small in the preview, but there are two views of the system, which I thought was a nice workmanlike job in appearance, though I guess not in function.  I hope they visible enough.  I can always take more close-ups.



I'm not a pro, but do have basic plumbing skills, better than basic electrical, and I'm going to tackle this myself.  Probably.  I've worked with galvanized and copper, and even a little cast iron soil pipe back in the day before hubless adaptors.  I could hire the original guy to do it, but he'd probably ask why the H*** I wanted him to do THAT. 



I'm hoping someone can look at the pictures and  maybe suggest a nice clean new way to layout and re-pipe the circulator and tank.  I guarantee you won't insult me by including even the smallest details.



Thanks.

TMcD

Big Ed_4

Easy Fix

Just move the circulator after the air scoop and expansion tank ... This way you will be pumping away and the zone valves will be on the other side of the system from the circulators , where they should be to help prevent zonevalve banging noise ....

TMcD

I wish it was that simple.

Hey, thanks, Big Ed.  I like your idea but I don't think that would quite work.  The horizontal line and ball cock you can see just above the blue low water cutoff goes back to supply heat to my Boilermate, so the circulator needs to be below that. 

Ron Jr._3

Is there room

to add a tee for the expansion tank just upstream of the circulator ? You'll be pumping away ............  Or you'll have to do like Big Ed said and move the circ past the air scoop . You'd have to pipe the indirect supply past that point like you said though . If it was me ? I'd go that route and maybe bring all that stuff ( airscoop, expansion tank , circ ) closer to the boiler . I hate stepping on a laddder to work on a circ

Big Ed_4

Indirect

Oh now you dump a indirect on us , typical customer or salesmen ...Right Ron !! Ok with hot water which is the biggest load of a home .. I would run a independent circulator to the indirect ..Do away with the zone valve ...Pick up the supply for the indirect using full bore piping of the indirect boiler supply tappings, between the heat circulator and expansion tank/air scoop,.....you will need a circulator for the indirect with a built in check or use a flow valve .. Install the circulator on the indirect for better support ...

TMcD

Lemme think

about this a little bit (and sleep) and get back tomorrow

Big Ed_4

Trade Humor

Hope you did not take the "dumping the indirect " remark as a negitive remark toward you. It was added for a little trade humor ...

Mark Eatherton

Sawzall surgery...

If you really want to do it right, and you are truely skill full at soldering, cut it all out and put it back the right way. I agree with the comments about using a prioritized circulator for doing DHW. It might take you a day to do this, and you can salvage all those valves, but if you attempt to make what you've got work, it is going to be a mismatched mishmash of plumbing and still will be hard to work on and won't look right.



ME

TMcD

Thinking about this ...

RonJr - There is room for  a tee upstream of the circulator.  If I

plumbed one side of the expansion tank to that, I'm not seeing where

the other side of it would tie in.   The tank shouldn't be on a dead

end line, should it?







Big Ed - Nope, I didn't have a problem with your trade humor.  I just grinned.



I get what you're saying about a circulator for the indirect line, but I'm not exactly sure where you mean.  Here's what I think I would do it, starting from the boiler supply outlet.



1.  Short vertical run with tee for low water cutoff

2.  Short vertical run with high temp cutoff strapped to it

3.  Horizontal run with expansion tank/air scoop

4.  System circulator

5.  On to baseboards



Are you saying to tee the indirect circulator between  3 and 4?  Sorry if I seem dense. It's only because I am.



Mark - I hear you about doing it the right way.  I definitely don't want an crazy-DIY mess of pipes, but I think I could maybe live with a little bit ugliness.



I appreciate you guys helping me out with this.



TMcD

heatboy

Short of starting over.

Since you can’t really move the pump, moving the compression tank would be the thing to do.  Remove the piping from the top of the circulator to the bottom of the indirect return.  Add an isolation flange on top of the pump and add a “T” (looks like a 1.25x1.25x.5 CCF would work) above the valve.  Pipe the tank in there.

 

Not perfect, but pumping away.  Remove the cap behind the boiler outlet and add a Taco 418 auto vent.  The boiler will have a pressure increase due to the proximity of the pump, but it won’t be a problem with standard boiler pressures of 12 – 15 PSIG because the boiler pump does not generate a huge pressure increase (how many floors up do you have?)  The water will slow as it comes into the boiler, which is where the Taco 418 comes into play, since the boiler will become your primary air eliminator at that point.

 

Not ideal, but it will work much better than your current arrangement.

 

I agree with M.E., though.  Sawzall Surgery would be the best option, but there many, many boilers piped like yours that work fine.

Big Ed_4

Indirect supply

Just thinking a simple fix.. With a detacated circulator for the indirect .. I like to mount them off the indirect boiler supply tapping .. You would want to pick up the supply after the air scoop/ expantion tank and before the heat circulator to get the benifit of the airscoop and pumping away.You would also need aleast one shut off for purging the system. Using your zonevalves and single circulator set up, you would tee in after the pump....

TMcD

Thanks.

OK, Ed, I think I understand you now.



Heatboy, I must be missing something.  Why can't I move the circulator?    Your idea sounds similar to what RonJr was getting at, I think.   When you say pipe the tank in there (at the tee), I'm not getting what you mean.  Sorry for my ignorance.  The sketch below is all I can picture.  Can you fill me in a little more?



 I have two floors above the basement.

TMcD

Thanks

It looks like everyone has said his piece and I appreciate that you all took the time to answer my question.  How best to do this is pretty clear to me now, and I'll just be waiting for warm weather to tackle the job.



Thanks for the help.



Tom

DanHolohan

Jeffrey,

please check the Rules above and remove the link to your Web site from your signature line. It's not fair to those who advertise with us for you to be doing this. Thanks for your understanding and cooperation.

DanHolohan

Thank you for taking care of that, Jeffrey.

I appreciate it and I'd welcome you as a Find a Pro advertiser.