Weil Mclain install pics for your opinions

Dave Miller_2

Please review the attached pics and tell us if the installer has violated any manufacturer rules, and will the system work. I don't think it's very pretty but will it get the job done? We are a non-profit museum and the contractor is giving us a break so I don't want to make a big fuss unless there is something you see that is just plain wrong. By the way, if someone wants to post a good looking similar job, I will try to get the owner of the business to upgrade his installer's skills.



Thanks a bunch........



Dave Miller

Skaneateles Historical Society (NY)

Ted_4

Header Size

Since no one else has weighed in yet, I'll take a stab at it.

It's very hard to see all the details of the setup from your pictures, but it looks to me like the header piping is the same 3/4-inch size as the zone piping.  Those zone pumps are rather large, and may be in intense competition when both are running.  This could cause poor distribution and lots of flow noise.  In addition, the pumps are both mounted too close to the header tees.  There should be a straight run at least 10 pipe diameters long between tee and pump flange for best pump performance, mininmum noise and maximum pump longevity.

Jean-David Beyer

I also have an Ultra-3

A few comments, but bear in mind that I am not a professional.



1.) Is this installation complete? I ask because I do not see a drain from the pressure relief valve. Around here, the inspector would not accept that. (I guess it is not yet complete, since the two circulators are not wired up to the Taco control box yet.)



2.) It seems to me that the valve connecting the expansion tank to the rest of the system should be open, not closed.



3.) The loop between the supply outlet of the boiler and the return to the boiler should be a minimum of 1 inch. My contractor said he got better results with 1 1/4 inch so he used that. He also used 1 1/4 inch all across the top between the closely spaced Ts to the circulators. Similarly for the returns. This size applies to the 80K and 105K units. The 155K and 230K units

require 1 1/4" pipe, and the 310K unit requires 1 1/2 inch. I am not

expert enough to tell the size of your pipe, and do not know the size

of your boiler, but they look kind-of small.



4.) In my case, the circulators are Taco 007-IFC. You want some kind of flow check valves in there to prevent circulating in loops when heat is not wanted in them. It does not seem that yours are IFC because, at least for mine, they have a big white sticker on the end that says so.



5.) I do not know what your code is, but where I am, they installed an McDonnell & Miller RB-122E low water detector just above the boiler return. I know Weil-McLain say their electronics meet the code requirements in many jurisdictions, but the cost of the M&M unit is small compared to the whole job, and the additional redundant margin of safety is worth it, IMO.



My contractor put the closely spaced Ts 5 inches apart even though W-M say up to 12" is OK.

Unknown

Not too awful bad,,,,

To me that piping does look like 1",,,,, and I agree on the size of the pumps and C/V issues mentioned.

Not a big-fan of air-vents on the return that close to a Spirovent,,, but I see why you put them on the flow with this piping scheme.  ;-)

BTW- Where do you figure-on tying in the water supply?



I also like the foamed rim joists,,,, nice touch! ;-)

EricAune

Ultra

Seems to look well done.  I see the boiler piping to be one inch, same as Dave.  (you can see the size change at the closely spaced tee's and also at the relief valve tee.



I have no idea what is on the other side of the pumps, nor can I tell by looking at them what size they are.  I do however agree with the placement being too close to the header for the same reasons listed above.  Depending on what side of the pump curve they size out on will dictate whether there is any noise/problems.



If I am not mistaken the Ultra installation manual calls for a flow check to be installed on the boiler loop.  You might want to check the manual for that.  I do know there are many variations of piping diagrams included in it.

Dave Miller_2

Weil McLain install pics and issue

Many thanks to Ted, JD, Dave and Eric for their input and I will be posting new (better) pics now that the install is nearly complete for further comment.



Meanwhile, the contractor fired the boiler last Thurs and we were without heat in the unfinished museum this Monday AM.  We figure she probably quit Fri or Sat judging by the total lack of heat in the building.  The only fault that showed was "ignition failure".  The techs have gone thru the manual and can see nothing obvious to fix.  They are puzzled about the parameters they loaded  being erased twice in memory.  This install is still in test phase where we are checking for leaks etc. and we have not added any anti-freeze or additives yet.



We have 2 zones in concrete so it will be a while before we get everything warm.



What would you guys look for first if you had "ignition failure?"



TIA,



Dave Miller

Board Member

Skaneateles Historical Society (NY)

Jean-David Beyer

What would you guys look for first...

Remember, I am not a professional.



I would look first in the Ultra 3 Boiler manual, the troubleshooting section that starts on page 84 and goes to page 88. You should have gotten a copy with your boiler, but if not, you can get a copy by going to



http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multimedia-library/pdf/weil-mclain-pdf/products/boilers/gas-boilers/ultra-series-3/ultra-series-3-boiler-manual.pdf



for the Ultra 3 (108 pages) and to



http://www.weil-mclain.com/en/multimedia-library/pdf/weil-mclain-pdf/products/boilers/gas-boilers/ultra-series-3-ue/ug3_boiler_manual.pdf



for the Ultra 3 UE. (The page numbers may be different for this one.) You may want to look at this one no matter which boiler you have, as the trouble shooting section seems to have much more information.



It says, for Ignition Fault: Set if more than 5 ignition retries. It will automatically reset after one hour, or if you power cycle the boiler.



Of course, that does not address why the ignition even needs to retry. Mine has not needed it yet. A professional should be able to help you better than I ever could, but I would wonder about gas pressure, proper installation or air supply and vent pipe (not too far apart, etc.). Could be something electrical, of course.