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Iron Fireman Steam System

AlPro
AlPro Member Posts: 7
I have an Iron Fireman steam system which consists of 3/4" copper baseboard being fed by a 3/8" copper supply line and returning via a 1/4" copper line to a 1" manifold in the basement.  The boiler is operating at 8 psig.  Where can I find some design information on how the system was intended to operate?

Comments

  • ttekushan_3
    ttekushan_3 Member Posts: 940
    edited January 2010
    SelecTemp

    Look in the library under Unusual Systems, Iron Fireman SelecTemp. There's a brochure there, but they show the unique steam power driven unit heaters. Tremendous output with individual control. Most of these units began to leak and were replaced with fan unit heaters, convectors or, in your case, fin tube. In some cases, contractors installed convectors from the beginning.



    The supply lines don't restrict the flow of steam as you would think it would since the steam velocity was able to run a small steam turbine that ran the blower. You MUST have good steam traps if there is no SelecTemp unit heater involved. BTW, those 3/8" and 1/4" runouts are measured OD since it is soft refrigeration copper!I really like those systems.



    Gerry Gill in Cleveland and I are familiar with these systems. What are your questions?



    Are you in the Cleveland area?



    -Terry
    terry
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,507
    iron fireman

    should the pressure really be so high?--nbc
  • ttekushan_3
    ttekushan_3 Member Posts: 940
    Yes, sort of.

    Depending on radiation and main sizing you should be able to go somewhat lower. Gerry Gill invited me recently to go on a SelecTemp field trip. That boiler was running at 6 lbs and heat delivery was outstanding.



    Gerry made an interesting observation about this type of steam system- with the small piping and the convectors/fin tubes with very little air content and very little mass: the typical pick up factor on boiler sizing is not necessary at all. Size the boiler by output, not square feet EDR.



    Its quite stunning to look at that tiny copper piping feeding a bunch of 18,000 btu fan coil units and belting out the heat. This is one steam system that's fantastic at recovering from deep temperature setbacks!



    -Terry



    PS I have an idea that this type of system is what the future of heating really needs- occupancy based heating with outrageously fast room temperature recovery times. It would be easy and cheap as dirt to install, too. Remember- you read it here first!
    terry
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,010
    yes,

    that is normal pressure on a steam mini tube (iron fireman) system.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,010
    i bet that a steam mini tube system

    can blow away the efficiency of any forced air system. Terry, i'll be putting one of these into my house soon..you'll have to come over and play..i was ordering Dunham traps for it today as a matter of fact..
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • Steamhead
    Steamhead Member Posts: 14,831
    Can I

    come and play too?



    Pleeeeeeeeez?
    All Steamed Up, Inc.
    Steam, Vapor & Hot-Water Heating Specialists
    Oil & Gas Burner Service
    Consulting
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,010
    of course..

    but only if the wife allows ;)
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • ttekushan_3
    ttekushan_3 Member Posts: 940
    Howwwww sooooooon?

    with proper permissions of course.



    I designed a variant that does away with the steam traps and the boiler feed pump. Just two electrovalves, two temp sensors and a recovery tank. ODR modulates pressure. I should share the drawing. Optional are the occupancy sensing room thermostats to run unoccupied areas at a setback until someone walks in. Having seen how a classroom with steam convectors can gain several degrees in a few minutes, I think this is one way of "going green with steam." If we evaluated heating by "occupancy-hours/square foot" or something like that, I think our modern SelecTemps would kick green butt. In a manner of speaking.



    -Terry
    terry
  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,010
    this season sometime,

    sounds interesting, would love to see the drawings!
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,010
    ALPro- we kind of hijacked your thread,

    so if you need any specific questions answered just ask away or email us.
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

This discussion has been closed.