panel rads,baseboard ,hi heat lose and costs where to do cross the line

clammy

recently called to a supposely no heat gas company just shut it down and told HO to have it cleaned(gas) i went to the job found unit full of carbon after a closer look found a large hole in the cast above the water line the boiler was a utica a little over 30 years old ,i had recently replaced the lwco and installed a skim tapping and some minor piping repairs and had told the HO that the boiler was on its last legs he still wanted the work done even though i told him he was throwing good money to bad either way she is dead ( i did fill the steam chest with water and did check for leaks about 4 months ago) , Iwas ready to hook them up with  new steamer except HO wants to switch to hot water panel rad system ,promblem being hi heat lose and about 3 rooms would require 2 panel rads none of these rooms are large at all just loaded with large windows and of course this old home has no insulation in it at all heat lose was only 74,000 btus design 70 Inside temp 5 outside .Now what do you do the heat lose in most of the rooms will not permit using the reversable buderus model 21 so i am stuck using model22 and even so 3 rooms will need 2 panel rads .After running some # and changing some insulation factors (like adding insulation)they still need the extra panel rads in these rooms .Now i could install baseboard except it means removing all the old hi moldings (hate and i mean hate seeing baseboard screwed to molding total hack and i will not do it garbage) and covering all the walls with baseboard.The other promblem i have encountered is between all the windows and the high base moulding and super sized trim on the windows leaves for a hard panel rad  install due to distanes .I was planning on using a peerless purefire,  uponor classic manifold set up with flow setters and uponor pex al pex  and buderus panel rads ,promblem being the panel rad side of the equation is going to cost more then boiler ,manifold and tubing.Am i better off having less room to room control of panel rads  and just cover it all with base board  and run the system at about 160 max at 5 outside .On another note the chimmey is not in good shape either and needs alot of work like the last 3 to 4 feet completly rebuilt.This would be the same temp and reset i would do for the panel rads due to a existing bb loop which serves a small mirco crawl space addition (no access only large enough for critters)When do you say forget the low temp and panel rads and just do a wall to wall bb system or better yet as i have stated to the HO this is going to be alot of money and will not happen over nite .Saddest part is the steam boilers existing supply piping is not great, looks like the apprenetie did it not a real steam guy basically night mare both main headers have issue like some counter flow with no drips 100 year plus semi clogged return  and on either side the basement and house is full of *rap so for the basement work i would have to grow wings and of yeah lets keep the price low as it is there is no heat in the home since wendensday and no sign of a boiler till at least monday  and if they go with hot water no heat till at least later next week ,What would you do besides go over it all with the HO  push the panel rads away and just blast about 180 ft of baseboard into a 2 story  home constisting of 2 about 675 sq.ft. floors ?Or replace the steamer like i had planned and stop wasting time and freezing ? on one final note what do you all think of running 180 max on panel rads i know it kinda defeats the mod con  but those hi teps would only be at design day ?what do ya think sorry forthe long postThanks for any input peace and good luck clammy

CMadatMe

Maybe Radiant Panel Baseboard?

I don't the perimeters of the rooms but maybe the attachement can help you out. You can still use the Wirsbo manifold and 3/8" Pex. Basically replaces the kick moulding and looks just like it. PS, Run a 30 degree delta-t instead of a 20 even at design you'd alleast have 150 going back to the boiler. You would have to use any panels rated output at 160 though.

Steamhead

Stay with steam

That's the least expensive way (even with re-lining the chimney), will require no changes in the living areas, can stay with existing smaller radiators and only one will be needed per room, and we all know that when YOU (as opposed to the hack that installed the previous boiler) fire it up, it will work like the Dead Men intended.



How much radiation is there now?

clammy

thinking and thinking

well i have been going through my mind what will be the most cost effietive of course i come up with steam but i pretty sure the woman of the house would like to get rid of it .After having a bit more time to think about it i,m still kinda stuck money wise it goes like this install a steamer correct the near boiler piping ,replace wet return,pipe in drips for the counter flow mains and tie in base board loop as for the chimmey well they need a mason way before a liner is installed for starters and they believe the chimmey is fine the roofer told them so 7 years ago .As i was thinking of panel rads but i feel the cost as for the size of the home it does not make much sense but promblem being if i install say slant fin 80 i will be removing the large base moulding which i can pretty much guess will have no plaster behind or insulation so it leads to a bit of some patch work and some insulation to but as for cost to lower temps i can use about 150 supply temp on a 5 degree outside temp and maintain 72 indoor temp for quite alot less then panel rads cost and it would not be the first time i have done it and the other system i have done have performed as promised.Steamhead i can't find my rad edr sheet i had written up for this job but the boiler that was there was 375 edr and if i remenber corretly i had about  a 50 or so edr oversizing except there was 1 removed rad and that baseboard loop so she was sized very close to the conneted load.Some of the rooms 2 smaller bedroom had rads that where a little undersized and of course pipe so that it would be impossible to increase there size (window to the one side wall to the other )Also on another note they would like to add heat to a 3rd floor soon to be bed /office which with the way the steam main is piped and located would be a major tough one to do .I have asked them if they are planning to stay in the home for a while and they have stated they ain't moving any place any time soon.I'll be discussing everything with them today and finding out there perferenes and of course the money side to ,The biggest upside to the steam is not a big major project to replace the boiler as to the mod con theres alot of work to do besides just installing the boiler,baseboard or panel rads theres a issue of relocating the dryer vent and re doing the gas and electric for it and also building a wall to mount all this stuff (don't like the idea of mounting the boiler and piping to a above grade block wall on the north side of the house which has some major air leakage and day light peeking though) and most likly installing some insulation in the perimeter of the basement floor joist .The home was built in the early 1900 and was construted for a  local founderey for it's workers    (salt box type) it was originally most likely coal fired .So i'll see where i am at by sun dow today thanks for your insight and opions now its just up to there budget as to where they want to go with it .Peace and good luck clammy