Welcome! Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum.
Need to contact us? Visit https://heatinghelp.com/contact-us/.
Click here to Find a Contractor in your area.

Mark Eatherton

CMadatMe
CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
While surfing around I came across an article you wrote for Contractor Mag back i Jan 2001, Code of standards is needed, and now 



<a href="http://contractormag.com/hydronics/cm_column_49/">[url=http://contractormag.com/hydronics/cm_column_49/]http://contractormag.com/hydronics/cm_column_49/</a> 



 Where does the RPA and the code stand 9 years later? You wrote a very nice article and I couldn't agree with it more. Just curious to see if it fell flat on its face or has there been any progress. Happy holidays..



 
"The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."

Comments

  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    The document...

    Chris,



    The final document that was produced is the Radiant Panel Association Installation Standards and Guideline, available to anyone who wishes to view it through the RPA web site. http://www.radiantpanelassociation.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=115



    The general consensus was that the RPA should not be charged with writing an actual "code", hence there are a lot of "Should"'s where there would be "Shall"'s.



    AHJ's are given the opportunity to adopt the standards as a reference into their own code standards. The document fills the major gaps between the minimum code standards as dictated by the two prevailing code bodies (I vs U) and gives the inspectors and contractors a guideline as to best practices in the field.



    Like any written code, enforcement is only as good as the enforcers, and most enforcers aren't interested in telling people how to do their jobs where life safety is not an issue, and with the exception of the combustors, which is already pretty well covered in the codes, there is not much life safety issue with improper radiant heat isntallations, just lots of discomfort and wasted energy.



    The Canadian document listed in the article is in my opinion THE best document ever produced, and at one time, was strictly enforced. I would have to defer to Leo G or one of our Canuckian friends up north to see what the current level of enforcement is, but the whole shebang was put together by manufacturers and contractors and code enforcement officials, as was the RPA document.



    I think the biggest loop hole in this whole scenario is the lack of a licensure requirement as it pertains to HVAC/Hydronic heating contractors. We attempted to get licensure requirements here in Colorado, only to have it beat back by lawyers representing the largest CITY in the state, that being Denver. You see, they have their OWN HVAC /Hydronic/steam licensing requirements, and they were afraid that if the state took over licensing, that they would lose the revenue stream from their own requirements of licensure.



    Funny thing is, ALL electricians here are required to be state liecensed, and the city requires them to be "Registered" in the city, and the fee's associated with registration were the same as the city's licensing fee's prior to the state taking over licensing...



    Frustrating to say the least...



    Like any code document, it is an ever changing, continually evolving process.



    Thanks for reading me, and thanks for asking.



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    Thank You

    for taking the time to respond. Look forward to reading the link you provided. We have the same issue here. No liciensing by the state yet certain municipalites require their own. Electrical contractors were just being required to obtain their license this past July in Orange County NY looks like they are attempting to hit our trade next. Thanks again and happy holidays to you and your family.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • heatboy
    heatboy Member Posts: 1,468
    Licensing and Enforcement

    Licensing without proper and quality inspection and enforcement is not worth the paper the license is written on. To think that just having all "Hydronicians" ( a term coined by Professer ME) be licensed and problems will somehow magically dissappear is foolish and I believe it would only make the good guy's job even harder.



    To actually know enough and inspect everything that goes on in one of these systems, the inspector would want to be paid, as all of us do, for his knowledge. So if it would cost $100K or more a year times the amount of inspectors needed, who would pay for that? We all know it would be the taxpayer in one form or another and with all of the cutbacks local/ state governmants are faced with, HVAC inspections would surely be one of the first cuts.



    Caveat emptor has always been the best way of handling these things.
    heatboy



    The Radiant Whisperer





    "The laws of physics will outweigh the laws of ecomomics every time."
  • Robert O'Connor_12
    Robert O'Connor_12 Member Posts: 728
    HVAC Licensing in NJ

    Hi ME!,

    Great to finally meet you and thank you for your time here in the great State of New Jersey. Your seminars were very informative, and if I have my way I think we will be seeing more of you in the years to come (thats if you'll have us!)

    In New Jersey, legislation was signed into law on December 20, 2007 that will among other things establish a new State Board of Examiners of Heating, Ventilating, Air Conditioning and Refrigeration (HVACR) Contractors and require licensure in order to work as a Master HVACR contractor. Among the duties of the new Board, which has not yet been duly constituted, is the issuance of Master HVACR contractor licenses. The law includes a “grandfathering” provision, N.J.S.A. 45:16A-26, which authorizes the Board to issue a Master HVACR license based on experience without examination for a limited time.

    In order to give master plumbers and HVACR contractors meeting the requirements for licensure based on experience the full six months within which to make application, the six month “grandfathering” period will commence to run on the effective date of regulations to be adopted by the Board of Examiners of Heating, Ventilating, Air Conditioning and Refrigeration Contractors prescribing the application procedure and the application fee.

    As you can see by the date above, New Jersey is taking longer than expected to adopt this board, but I can resonably see this happening within the next year, possibly two.



    Robert O'Connor/NJ
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    Thanks Robert!

    It was a pleasure meeting you as well. Nice to know I have friends in Jersey!



    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
This discussion has been closed.