Heattimer Vari-valve

MacPHJr

Ever use these steam vents. Guys at the supply house said that they have been selling alot of them and they work good for hard to vent radiators. I dont know how these would work better then actually taking the vents completely off and still not getting the steam to pull through.



Dont have access to vent on main, buried by finished basement. Second floor barely gets the heat before thermostat is shutoff on first floor.





Any ideas?

jpf321

system unblanced?

perhaps you need to vent the 1st flr a bit slower instead of trying to get the 2nd to vent faster.



i have developed an Excel worksheet to help balance venting. you can download the appropriate version by the link on my signature. you need a working version of excel. any questions regarding the sheet, ask me directly.



the sheet includes both Gorton and Hoffman 1A recommendations, but it should give you an idea of how to size the vents in relation to each other. i might try plugging in a few extra minutes vent time for the 1st flr equipment. I think the sample is laid out for 3mins 3rd flr, 5mins 2nd flr and 7mins 1st flr.



not having main vent access is like owning a car without a way to change the air filter .. see if you can unbury the vent by way of a little access panel of something.



i hope this helps.

hoss50

Heattimer Vari-valve

You are going to have to find those main vents and run the system to see if they are working. There could even be plugs where the vents should be.

Unknown

Vari- Valve

Like the others have said the real fix is to find the main vents and make sure they are working and even add more venting capacity. The old saying is "vent the mains fast and the radiators slowly".

To answer you question-  To see what affect the Varivents would have, I would manually vent the worse radiator and time how long it took steam to get to the radiator. I'd hook up a small nipple and a full flow ball valve to that second floor radiator's vent so you could shut it off when steam reached it.

It would also give you an idea as to whether you're going to have a "spitting" problem from water be drawn to the vent by the faster steam velocity. Vari-Valves, while they have a huge venting capacity, are notoriously for "spitting". Here is a link to info on the VariValve. Note that they have no float to stop water shooting out of the vent.http://www.heat-timer.com/enFiles/ProductDocument/literature/VariV056082C.pdf





jpf321's idea of slowing down the fist floor radiators is good as this will initially free up more steam for the second floor. However as mentioned this VariValve fix is really kind of "mickey mouse". Putting in maximum main vents would work a lot better and also decrease the amount of fuel used as steam would get to all radiators faster.

-Rod

MacPHJr

Main Vents

I have seen steam vent at the end of the mains and and on the ends of the returns. Which is the best place?

nicholas bonham-carter

best place for vents

put them on the end of the dry return, just before it drops down to become the wet return. however, some systems known as counterflow, do not have a dry return, but instead terminate the main just after the last rad. on these, you need the main vent at that end. main vents do all the work of air release, which radiator vents cannot do. they are not a luxury, but a necessity for proper operation.--nbc

MacPHJr

What If?

6 unit apartment building has 1 three inch main with no vents. The steam has to go up the riser, through the radiator and down its own return to a return header call it. The waster collects in the header and overflows into a return the goes right back to the boiler, where it is vented. That doesnt seem right to me. The only vents for the main are on the radiators themselves. Should I cut vents into the main.

Unknown

Steam System

From what you describe it sounds like someone has changed things over time or it is a weird "hermaphrodite" system.  Let me ask you some more questions that will give us a better "picture" of the system and will help us give you a better answer.

1. The 3 inch main - from where the steam enters above the boiler, does the pipe slope away from the boiler or towards the boiler?

2. What is the end of the 3 inch main away from the boiler connected to?

3. From your description all the radiators have two pipes attached to them?

4. Is the pipe that delivers steam from the 3 inch main to each radiator attached to the top or the bottom of the radiator?

5. Are the any traps connected to the condensate exit pipe at the bottom of each radiator?

6. Is what you're calling the "return header" above or below the boiler's waterline?

7. What is the maximum pressure the boiler is operating at now?



Get back to us with the answers and we should able to give you a better reply.  Also if possible, pictures really help - Rod

rca

Vari-valves seem OK

I recently got 5 Vari-valves for my apt. The old VentRite adjustable valves they replaced  were hissing and spitting, and the idea was

that they had gradually gotten dirty in part because the system

undervented (there's no main vent so the vari-valves were appealing because they provide a

lot of venting capacity). 



The Vari-valves seem OK, but they do gurgle sometimes, so we're now looking into whether the boiler is producing wet steam, and it's too early to give a final review of the Vari-valves. I will say, however, that the gurgle from the vari-valves is much more tolerable than the hissing/whistling from the VentRites.



cheers,

-Bob

Charlie from wmass

I can say we do not use Vari-Valves.

Hoffman, Vent-rite, and Gorton. each to its own use. you need to get the mains vented. Just because the Carpenter buried does not mean we do not need to get to it. Thats why man created Saw-z-alls.  

MacPHJr

Will try to get pics

I should start off by saying that the boiler does have two other 1 1/2 inch steam mains. But the three inch main runs the length of the basement with various radiator riser off a 45 degree angle taken from it. It terminated with a dripped return back to the boiler, no vent. The steam enters the bottom of every radiator and condensate drips from the opposite side of the bottom tapping. The return headers are above the water line of the boiler. There are two of these returns headers. The 3 inch main is pitched back to the boiler.



There are no steam traps and the boiler operates at about 1 1/2 to 2 pounds