Leaking Gorton #2

lutorm

Hi again,



I finally installed an antler with a Gorton #2 on my 1-pipe steam system that had no main vents. Everything seems to work and it really did pretty much get rid of the water hammer and howling radiator vents I had, which is awesome. The only problem is that now it's the main vent that's howling.



The pressure tops out at 2.5psi with the pressuretrol cranked down as far as it will go. At that point the Gorton is hissing so it can be heard throughout the basement, with plumes of condensing steam going in all directions. That's not right, is it? It's brand new, so did I get a lemon? I assume they should seal tight, but before I call the vendor I want to make sure I don't make a fool out of myself.

nicholas bonham-carter

where is the real lemon in my system?

you need an accurate gauge to determine your pressure as 2.5 psi is close to ruining your vents. most likely your pressuretrol has failed, as they often do [better to have a vaporstat, and a 0-15 ounce gauge, gaugestore.com].

it's also possible that the pigtail has become blocked, and therefore not able to feel the pressure.--nbc

lutorm

It's the vent.

I just cleaned the pigtail (which *was* clogged, but is no longer) and installed a 0-3psi gauge, so unless the gauge (I got it from gaugestore.com, it's supposedly a "precision" gauge, for whatever that's worth) is faulty, the pressure really maxes out at 2.5 psi. Actually, it's unlikely the gauge is faulty because the 0-30, crappy as it is, reads a pressure which is consistent with 2.5psi also.



Furthermore, even before the rad vents were closed and the pressure was less than 0.1 psi, I could tell the Gorton was leaking because if I held up a wrench next to the outlet, water would condense on it.

nicholas bonham-carter

leaking gorton

if you can get the pressure down to the design pressure of the vents, you may be lucky, and have no permanent damage to those vents. the standard pressurtrol has occasionally  been able to get down to 1.5 psi max, and that is where your system should be

i would think that any misting from the vent, before it has closed on steam arrival, would indicate a "wet steam" condition, from a piping problem.--nbc

lutorm

More details

When I said the vent was leaking at low pressure, I didn't mean before it closed. When it was open there was an obvious whooshing sound of air coming out. What I meant was that after steam arrived, it got hot and closed, but before the radiator vents had closed so the pressure was still barely detectable on the gauge, you could see escaping condensing steam. I could not detect any moisture on the escaping air before it got hot (and neither would I expect to, given that it should be air, not steam).



I'll try tweaking the pressuretrol further, but there was audible hiss from the Gorton at anywhere higher than a few tenths of psi, so that won't stop it from leaking.

lutorm

Pressure down

By further deforming the spring holder in the pressuretrol I got it down to 1.8 cut-out / 0.8 cut-in. But like I said, the hissing from the Gorton starts as soon as the gauge registers noticeable pressure, so it didn't change that fact.



Overnight, enough steam has escaped through the vent that now the LWCO is beginning to blink intermittently during the off-cycles, so the leak is pretty substantial.

lutorm

Replacement vent is leaking too

So I returned the hopelessly leaky #2. The one I got in return is a lot better, but it still hisses slightly at 1-1.5psi, with condensing steam visible. (After my modifications to the pressuretrol, the system is now cycling between 1.6 and 0.6 psi.)



Are these vents supposed to be dead shut after they've closed, or is a slight hiss normal?

If they are supposed to close, it seems either Gorton has a quality problem or they should be shipped in much more padding than pexsupply gives them.

nicholas bonham-carter

is it normal-the hiss?

i have  a dozen # 2's and no hissing. of course the air is out by the time the pressure is at 3 ounces. i would still suspect a pressure problem instead of a quality control problem. have you tested them using the "blow test"?

i just would not trust a pressuretrol, or a vaporstat to be at a certain pressure, without the appropriate gauge.--nbc

lutorm

Would you trust this one?

http://gaugestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=33041 is saying the pressure is 1.5 psi max.

Big-Al_2

Gortons

I bought a couple of Gorton radiator vents two years ago.  They seem to take forever to close completely, and even then sometimes leak ever-so-slightly unless I tap on them.  There doesn't seem to be much force holding them closed.  I switched one of them out to a snap-action Hoffman 40.  It closes much more positively and reliably.  When I bought new main vents, I went with Hoffman 75s because I didn't trust the bimetalic design of the Gortons.  Maybe I was wrong, but that was my impression at the time.



Strangely, the Maid-O-Mist vents I bought seem to work better, even though they are reputed to be cheaply made knock-offs of the Gortons, with plastic internal parts.  I have no explanation, just observation . . .

jpf321

gortons .. hmmm

i bought 2pcs of Gorton #2's and picked-them-up-by-hand from PEXsupply .. one of them leaked slightly during a blow test .. but it doesn't seem to leak during normal operation.



however, of the 11 new rad vents that I got simultaneously, I have to say that many of them (5 or 6) hiss/leak but tapping them does quiet them so i'm kinda dissappointed. i did switch one of them out with another brand new gorton and the rad has been quiet since, but interestingly enough, the hiss then moved to the next rad down the line.



fyi, i run at 8oz max pressure.

nicholas bonham-carter

accurate pressure

that should be accurate, as far as pressure readout goes, but i wonder if the leaking would stop if your pressure were even lower?

in my case the gortons are on 4 ft. antlers [to clear the water-heater vent pipe]. i would think with such a cooling-leg, that they would be more inclined to leak, but they never do. maybe it's because they are 3 yrs old, and things were better at the gorton factory then.--nbc

lutorm

It leaks at lower pressure too

It fogs up a wrench long before the pressure has reached 1psi. Not much, but noticeable.

Big-Al_2

Another Hoffman 75 is on its way . . .

to my house, brand new, $27, shipped.  The local supplier gets about a hundred bucks for one, and only sells to the trades,  Gotta love eBay.  A third Hoffman 75 should just about put my system in the optimum vent capacity range.   I almost got a Gorton #2 a few weeks ago, but decided against it.  I'm glad I did.  Now I have an extra $40 to spend on my gas bill.

The two Hoffman 75s I have in my basement already are sure noisy.  They don't hiss or anything, but they make an audible clank when they close.  I can hear them all the way on the second floor.  With three of them operating, I'll have my own rhythm section.

lutorm

3rd vent also faulty...

Hello again,



Well, I got home after the holidays to find my third vent on the porch. No dice. This one never seems to open properly (at least I can't blow through it) but it still manages to leak at 1psi like the earlier one.



I emailed Gorton and asked **** is up. We'll see what they say.

brian_44

Same issue as you

I installed a Gorton #2 a couple of months ago. Now that it's colder out and the boiler works a little harder, I have the same exact hissing issue as you. It happens when the pressure on the boiler reaches about .5 psi and the hissing increases as the boiler continues to run. My pigtails are fine, no wet steam issue and everything else works just fine. 



I contacted PEX supply to see if they would send me another one as this one is absolutely faulty, but I'm wondering if anyone has had this issue w/ gorton #1's.  If so, I may swap this out for hoffman vents...pretty disappointed.

jpf321

install suggestions...

Someone may of course disagree...and I'm happy to hear thoughts on this .. but on page 4-23 (PDF page 43) of the following document: http://www.osti.gov/bridge/servlets/purl/10191625-8qJZ5M/webviewable/10191625.pdf .. they give installation suggestions... which include squirting some WD-40 into the vent to insure good sealing .. http://screencast.com/t/MTc3NDQxMTIt



I'm not suggesting this is a good practice .. I'm just suggesting that I found it written and perhaps it bears consideration or feedback.

Mark N

Gorton #1's

Brian



I have 6 Gorton #1's on my system. Three on each main. I've never observed them hissing but I don't watch them all time. This year I installed a low pressure gauge to see what pressure I run at. The highest I've seen it go is 1.6ounce/sq.in. Normally I run about 1ounce/sq.in. When I installed the gauge I tested by shutting off all my rad valves pressure quickly went to 1psi. My Gortons didn't hiss at this pressure. Does your system normally go up .5psi when its running or only when its running for a very long time. For a normal cycle to just satisfy the tstat .5psi seems quite high. All the rad vents should be open a pressure shouldn't build.



Mark

AlexR

wd-40 did seem to help

I have a couple of smaller Gortons that were hissing a lot just before the boiler cuts off on high pressure.  A squirt of wd-40 into the vent does seem to have helped- I guess they're closing better now because the hissing is gone.  We'll see how long that lasts. 





It seems like the only serious potential side effects would be (1) gunking of the vent such that it needs cleaning or (2) getting enough petroleum product into the vent that you need to reskim the boiler. 

jpf321

glad to hear ..

cool! .. it may be that the WD-40 is keeping the condensate from clinging/getting in the way of a tight closure .. did you know that the "WD" stands for "water displacement" and the "40" was b/c it was the 40th formula they were testing before they got it right (see: http://www.wd40.com/faqs/#a91 ) .. i guess they had better engineers than the "Formula 409" people

brian_44

Sorry for the delay

Mark,

Thanks for your response and sorry for the long delay. Just getting back in the swing of things...

My boiler only hits .5 (and the highest I've seen is 1.5 psi) on a long cycle. It typically happens in the AM on a cold day when jumping up 2 or more degrees. On normal cycles, it never gets to that pressure.  It's on those long cycles where I notice the hissing...

I ordered a replacement Gorton #2 and the NEW one doesn't even vent.  In the 'blow test', I have to blow pretty hard to get air to come out. (As a bag piper, I'm quite full of hot air!)  SO, I'm returning the NEW bad #2 in hopes of receiving at least ONE good #2. (Is it possible PEX is recirculating all of these bad #2 vents?) I'm pretty aggrivated now and am ready to throw in the towel and pick up Hoffman vents...