Looking for a Steam Pro for site survey visit

jpf321

I have tried the F.A.P. but didn't find any good steam folks near me in Forest Hills, Queens, NY (zip 11375). I'm interested in a critique and any recommendations for an old steam system which came with my new house purchase.



I have an old one-pipe steam system powered by a Fitzgibbons 400 boiler with a 8GPM Tankless Water Heater for Domestic HW with a Beckett Oil Gun.



The home is about 3500sq ft 3-floor semi-detached true brick construction with 14 radiators throughout. (6 on 1st flr, 5 on 2nd, 3 on 3rd).



The one near-boiler vent I found is a Gorton No. D. I have a Honeywell Aquastat (set to 170degF) and just ordered a 0-16oz Vaporstat to supplement my 0.5-9 Honeywell P-trol.



My header is all asbestos wrapped with 2 mains headed in different directions. My gauge is currently a 0-30 but I'm going to get the Wilka 0-3 which was recommended in these Forums.



All my rads get hot no problem but I'm hoping to work towards efficiency, speed and oil savings.



There are a couple of things that I'm unfamiliar with straight away: 

-- a mystery pipe coming from the floor

-- 2 black handled brass valves near the water sight

-- a plug at the front of the boiler near top .. skim port?



I've uploaded pictures here: <a href="http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#">[url=http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#]http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#</a>



Any help or thoughts is appreciated. Thanks.

nicholas bonham-carter

new fitzgibbons 400 system

-- 2 black handled brass valves near the water sight="try cocks" another means of checking the water level?

a mystery pipe coming from the floor=abandoned buried wet return?

you probably don"t have enough main venting with that 1 gorton d-try a gorton 2, and perhaps the location is not ideal. vents are best used at the end of the dry return or the main if counterflow.

i would put a good 0-3 psi gauge on in addition to the 0-30 so you know exactly what your pressure is.--nbc

jpf321

i think you're right

thanks nbc...

just before checking replies to the post, i went down and had another look around .. I found that it looks like the wet return was pulled from behind the wallboards to a plain-in-sight perimeter run around the basement. Without opening the wall where they seemed to screw in a patch covering, i'm guessing that the return was indeed buried and run through the floor...i'm impressed by your insightfulness.



yep the 0-3 is going be ordered tomorrow...i assume that the gauge(s) need a pigtail..the original gauge was a Fitzgibbons 0-30 Syphon Gauge but that was dead upon my arrival...i've since added the 0-30 (prior to finding this forum) but fear that it is now also dead due to missing pigtail. if I remove it and dry it out will it revive? are there methods for this task? 



before ordering the new venting, I'm going to do some measuring of main length and diameter and post the data in case anyone has a more specific parts list for vents and save some shipping.



i will also investigate moving the venting to other sections of the mains. i fear that it may involve driling and tapping .. but more on that after deeper investigation...i'm also not sure where I may have clearances for the 6+inch gorton #2.

jpf321

well look at that....

i opened up the wall patch and low and behold .. more vents!

[url=http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407115816743466066]http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407115816743466066

.. the left one is a Hoffman Siphon Air Valve #1 and the right one is a Hoffman Ventor #40... these vents are indeed at the end of the runs, just before the wet return, so I assume these are properly placed, although perhaps not properly oriented



additionally, the abandoned buried return... below the right leg...

[url=http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407115988241515474]http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407115988241515474

Steamhead

Next thing to do

is measure the length and diameter of your steam mains, so we know what to replace those vents with. They were sized for radiators, so proper main vents will definitely speed your system up.

Unknown

Steam System

Interesting pictures!  Just a couple of initial thoughts. You should have a pipe leading from your safety valve down to about 12 inches off the floor (like a water heater has or is supposed to have). If the safety ever opened as it is and some one was present in the immediate vicinity, they could get badly scalded.  That Gorton # D seems to be situated on the equalizer pipe which is rather "unusual" though I'll leave the pros who are familiar with older hybrid systems to comment on that. I haven't the foggiest idea why one would put a vent there.

While your boiler is apparently working fine at the moment I can't imagine that it is all that efficient and you probably wonder that yourself. You might want to keep close track of your operating costs with the present boiler and take the time to size out a modern replacement boiler. You could then compare the actual costs now with the theoretical costs of operating a new boiler with the replacement cost factored in which would hopefully give you an idea of what is the most feasible future path. For oil, the Burnham Megasteam boiler is one of the most efficient so you might want to use its figures for comparison. If nothing else you will be prepared if you find yourself in the situation of having to replace the present boiler.



While thinking about comparisons and figuring them out. Do you have Dan's steam  books? If not I would suggest you get: "We Got Steam Heat"

[url=http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Books/5/61/We-Got-Steam-Heat-A-Homeowners-Guide-to-Peaceful-Coexistence]http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Books/5/61/We-Got-Steam-Heat-A-Homeowners-Guide-to-Peaceful-Coexistence and "The Lost Art of Steam Heating"

They are available singlely or as a package. I would suggest the package as it comes with a third book on troubleshooting steam systems Here's the link:

[url=http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Super-Deals/14/129/A-Steamy-Deal]http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Super-Deals/14/129/A-Steamy-Deal

If you own a steam system, these books are a "must"!  They are written for the homeowner and pro, are easy reading, humorous and packed with info on residential steam systems.

They will explain what you need to do figure out a replacement boiler  plus anything else you want to know about residential steam heating.

My copies have paid for themselves many, many times over.

- Rod

jpf321

stupid question...but..

i assume that by "mains" you mean all the big overhead basement pipes and not the verticals ("risers"?) which lead to other floors or take-offs for 1st floor radiators. beginning from the header all the way to the currently depicted vents before the wet-return... i can do that now (or once I find my calipers).. don't have a pocket-rocket :-(

jpf321

good idea..

about the safety valve redirection to the floor .. as it is, noone would ever be standing in front of it since it points towards the back wall, but I will go ahead and pipe as you suggested ..



the books are on my christmas list (although I may have to get them earlier) .. but my wife thinks i'm crazy for asking for them... DAN CAN I PICK THEM UP FROM YOU IN L.I. rather than have them shipped?

Steamhead

That's

exactly what I meant. 

Unknown

Pipe Chart

Here's a chart which might help you with your measuring.  I use a strip of paper to measure the circumference and then use a rule to measure the paper.

jpf321

main sizes

Front Main (left vent) = 63.5ft @ 2in pipe + 2ft @ 1.25in pipe

Back Main (right vent) = 55ft @ 2in pipe + 2ft @ 1.25in pipe



Those trailing 2ft of 1.25" pipe is at the end between the last elbow of the 2in pipe and the wet return (where the 2 vents are currently located).



There are 3 risers off the back (right vent) main and 3 take-offs to 1st flr rads.

There is 2 risers off the front (left vent) main and 3 take-offs to 1st flr rads.



jpf

jpf321

thanks!

thanks for the chart .. was very helpful. 

jpf321

0-3 Wika gauge ordered

from gaugestore.com ..



I wanted to note that gaugestore checkout failed using Firefox 3.5.5 and credit card. Even when I was on the phone and tried it. It worked fine using Internet Explorer 8.0

Brian_74

Been looking @ this gauge, too.

Does it matter that the description says "Media Temperature: 140º F maximum"? Why don't we need something that with a 212°F (or more) maximum?

jpf321

a couple more pics

I opened up the vent are a bit more and have a couple more pics of where the 2in pipe joins with the 1.25in pipe. Maybe there is a recommendation to move the actual vents. There is plenty of headroom if I break open the wood just above the last elbow.

http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407333550471872210

http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407333962935045970



Thanks.

jpf321

gauge temp?...

i hope the media temp is OK. I got the reference from another post on this site. anyone?

the gauge i ordered is:

http://www.gaugestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=33020

jpf321

got my books...Steamy Deal + E.D.R

I just came from HeatingHelp.com HQ where I purchased the "Steamy Deal" and the E.D.R....now to get started reading them ..

DanHolohan

Thanks.

Enjoy!

Unknown

Gauge OK

The gauge will work fine. Mount it on a brass/bronze pigtail or on the same pigtail as the Pressuretrol /Vaporstat, using a Tee.  The water in the pigtail will protect the gauge. LOL- I think everyone who reads the gauge specs. wonders about this . I know I did,

- Rod

jpf321

summary so far

MAINS

I posted my main sizes yesterday .. and am hoping for recommendation for venting needs. Maybe there is a table in TLAOSH..haven't gotten to that chapter yet.

Front Main (left vent) = 63.5ft @ 2in pipe + 2ft @ 1.25in pipe

Back Main (right vent) = 55ft @ 2in pipe + 2ft @ 1.25in pipe



Those trailing 2ft of 1.25" pipe is at the end between the last elbow of the 2in pipe and the wet return (where the 2 vents are currently located).



There are 3 risers off the back (right vent) main and 3 take-offs to 1st flr rads.

There is 2 risers off the front (left vent) main and 3 take-offs to 1st flr rads.



SKIM PORT?

Could it be that the plug shown in the below pic is a skim port?

[url=http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407071614366131106]http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407071614366131106

My water bounces around quite a bit in the glass when the burner is firing, perhaps I need to skim it clean.



VENT ON EQUALIZER?

Rod wondered about the location of the Gorton #D on the equalizer.. is it ok to vent that pipe there?



CHANGE POSITION OF MAIN VENTS?

These pics show the current "main vents" .. should I consider moving them to the elbow before the vertical descent? They seem to be tapped into the pipe right now.

[url=http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407333550471872210]http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407333550471872210



[url=http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407333962935045970]http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407333962935045970



Dimension "A"?

Although the end of the 2in mains is just barely 24" above Waterline, the position of the current "main vents" (see pics directly above) is only 14" above waterline, this sounds like another reason to move them higher in the system (I have the headroom above false ceiling wood.)



Parts In So Far

-- Got my 0-16ozVaporstat,

-- Steamy Deal and E.D.R books today...

    -- Finished reading "We got Steam"

-- Wednesday my Wika 0-3 gauge should arrive.

-- I'd like to order up the venting :-)



Thanks.



jpf

Unknown

Main Vents

Hi-

One of the first things I would do before I changed anything is to time your system. The idea being that you have a standard on which to gauge whether a change is beneficial or not. You should time: How long it takes to make steam. (This is done by feeling the riser above the boiler.)  How long it takes steam to get to the end of each main (Feel the main and listen to the vent. You should here the hissing stop when the steam reaches it.)  How long it takes steam to reach each radiator. (Feel the inlet pipe just before it enters the radiator) How long it takes steam to fill each radiator. (Listen to the venting and time when it shuts- Feel the radiator for heat) Be careful! Steam is hot and a Live Steam burn is NO fun!



Terminology - This is a bit confusing at first - On the return- the piping above the boiler's waterline is called the "Dry Return". Piping below the Boiler's waterline is called the "Wet Return"  In a lot of cases, especially on the vertical, you can have one pipe that is both part of the Dry & Wet Return.



Main Vents-  On the 63.5 ft main you have 1.46 cubic ft of air which would take a Gorton # 1  approximately 4 .4 minutes to vent.

On the 55 ft. main you have 1.26 cubic ft of air which would take a Gorton #1 approximately 3.8 minutes to vent. (3 minutes is considered  good venting)

You also need to throw in the piping on the boiler and the piping on the dry return if that is where you are going to put you vents. You can under vent but you can't "overvent. (Having too much venting only hurts your wallet)

Vents - A Gorton #1 is about the same size a a little can of cat food on its side.

             A Gorton # 2 is about the same size as one of those old windup alarm clocks on its side. Capacity wise- a Gorton # 2 has about 3 times the venting capacity of a Gorton #1

As over venting isn't a problem I'd go with either one Gorton #2 on each main or 2 to 3 Gorton #1s per main. Height clearance is what you need to check.

 I've attached a drawing done by Brad White of a venting Antler /Menorah. Note the pipe union. This is a neat feature as it allows you to makeup and service the unit on a bench and not standing on a ladder between the floor joists. Also with this setup it is easy to add (subtract) addition vents.



You might want to get the following book on balancing steam systems by Gerry Gill & Steve Pajek. It's available as a download and has the capacity of different model vents and traps listed plus good info on balancing. I used it to figure the venting needed for your mains.

 [url=http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Books/5/146/Balancing-Steam-Systems-Using-a-Vent-Capacity-Chart-by-Gerry-Gill-and-Steve-Pajek]http://www.heatinghelp.com/products/Books/5/146/Balancing-Steam-Systems-Using-a-Vent-Capacity-Chart-by-Gerry-Gill-and-Steve-Pajek



Position of the main vents - When I saw the picture of your main vents I also wondered whether they were too low.  Main vents can either go at the end of the dry return (before it drops down) or on the end of the main itself. Since your object is to vent the main, placing the vent (s) on the main itself makes good sense and is preferred. Where they were originally positioned probably has more to do with space available.  People that have moved them from the dry return to the mains have noticed a difference.



Since you've gotten a Vaporstat you might want to take a look at a discussion over in the Control section. Gerry Gill (the same guy who wrote the book mentioned above) discusses problems with them and also explains how he tests them. [url=http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/128249/why-do-Honeywell-vaporstats-suck-so-badly]http://www.heatinghelp.com/forum-thread/128249/why-do-Honeywell-vaporstats-suck-so-badly. You might also want to take a look at his website as he has a lot of good info on steam systems. [url=http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/]http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/

While I'm thinking about sources of info I might mention that it is well worth while to roam as Dan says "Off the Wall". There is a lot of good info in the  "Resources" section at the top of this page.

- Rod

            

                    

jpf321

roger that ... and ...

Rod that you for the thorough and lengthy reply....



Timing:

Time to heat boiler riser - Can Do/Will Report - What is a "good" time for this task?

Time to get to end of mains - Can Do/Will Report -- however, those vents i fear are frozen shut and don't hiss .. the Gorton #D on the equalizer does hiss.

Time to each rad inlet - Can Do/Will Report -- however I fear several days worth of running around to all the rads or a crew of 10 people

Time to heat across each rad - Can Do/Will Report - same note above



I'm going to shoot for a Gorton #2 on each elbow as annotated in an updated picture.

[url=http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407333550471872210]http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407333550471872210

The reason I intend to utilize that elbow is because it involves minimal pipe disassembly and those reducers from the main end look pretty darn frozen..if you strongly advise not using that elbow, please let me know.



Thanks for the drawing, I saw it posted the other day as well. I appreciate the repost.



Will have a look at Gill's downloadable book.



I think the position of the main vents where they are is b/c the contractor was a "knucklehead" they are as comfortable drilling/tapping height when standing on the floor and he probably thought dimension A was an alternate dimension. It's pretty obvious from the rust marks that the wet return has come up to that height before.



I saw and read the "Why V-stats suck" thread yesterday. I studied his test set-up and notes about recalibratinge v-stat and am prepared to perform these tasks. Thanks for the repost. 



I have also read much of the "Off the Wall" resources. I will poke around Gill's site. Thanks.



OK off to buy parts and such for my new gauge/p-trol/v-stat antler..i hope to accomplish that today as well as the safety valve pipe redirection.



Thanks. jpf

jpf321

do i have 2 heads?

so i went into my local supply house that is normally very well stocked .. I asked him for  Gorton Main Vents .. he handed me a couple of #1's .. when I clarified and asked for 2pcs of Gorton #2 .. he looked at me like I had two heads .. then he said .. "Oh for a commercial building" (i didn't bother to correct him) .. he had 1pc in stock .. "it's not a big seller for them" .. fyi, here in Queens, NYC he had a price of $68 for the #2 and $22 for the #1. And since it was clearly written on the #2 box that 4x#1 = 1x#2 .. I did the math and told him that I'd have to think some more about my needs (that's code for I'll shop around and perhaps order from online) .. he didn't stock any Steam El's at all but directed me to a place that should have them.

brian_44

go here...

[url=http://www.pexsupply.com/Gorton-G2-Gorton-No-2-Straight-Air-Eliminator-3524000-p]http://www.pexsupply.com/Gorton-G2-Gorton-No-2-Straight-Air-Eliminator-3524000-p

Best price I found...fast shipping too.

jpf321

timing data

Boiler to header -- about 4-6mins

Header to end of 55ft main - 13mins -- no air release from frozen Ventor #40

Header to end of 65ft main - 21mins -- no air release from frozen Hoffman #1



Obviously, since there is no main venting, all venting occurred through the rads.



I'm fairly certain that my wet return is quite constricted (the condensate gets back there eventually as evidenced through site-gauge). But right now I'm concerned mainly with the venting...will get to the return soon enough.



I have to track down some steam el's and unless there are major objections, I plan on putting them in the location annotated on the following picture.

[url=http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407333550471872210]http://picasaweb.google.com/jpf321/Fitzgibbons400Boiler#5407333550471872210



I'm not going to order the Main Vents until I have the steam el's in hand to handle the vents. They don't seem to be readily available and I'm not sure how to search for them online.



I started measuring my EDR ... but got interrupted. Hey I was wondering, if the one of the tenets of steam heating it to insulate the pipes, would it also be useful to paint them Metallic Aluminum as well so as to decrease radiation by 20%? Just a crazy thought.



Thanks.

jpf321

gortons ordered

I did order the 2pcs #2 vents from pexsupply. The cost including shipping and NYS Tax came out to be about just a few $ different from my supply house ($123 total). FYI, although located in Long Island, there is no pick-up capability. I have to wait for the shipment. 



EDIT: I WAS able to pick-up my order from PEXSupply .. and they were more than accommodating and helpful .. definitely a thumbs up in my book.

jpf321

got my vents

earlier the morning I mentioned that PEXSupply would not allow pick-ups .. I TAKE THAT BACK. I just picked-up the #2's and I also picked-up new rad vents for each rads. I did my rad vent need calculations based on Gill's download book "Balancing Steam Systems" .. link posted by Rod above in this thread.



I also got all my piping for the Main Vent Antlers and I got a 1/2" tap .. now to get my hands dirty.

jpf321

Fitzgibbons 400 system: summary so far

Rad Venting

+ I've got new vents on all rads. -- many of the vents I removed we Gorton #Cs and Ventor 40s probably to try to overcome the frozen/inadequate main vents.

+ I'm developing an Excel Worksheet for rad venting recommendations, I will post once I make it a bit more user-friendly.



Boiler Mods

+ On my boiler menorah I've got:

  - my vaporstat wired in (settings 12oz sub. diff. of 6oz.)

  - my 0-3psi gauge installed.

  - my original p-trol (setting 9psi)

  - my 0-30psi gauge



EDR/BTU

+ My in home EDR = 371.5 (89160 BTU)

+ FYI, I found a radiator NOT in the E.D.R. book .. a 4-tube American Radiator "Arco Model" - I approximated as best as I could for this one based on the Amer. Rad. "Corto" 4-Tube.

+ Also the Burnham Radiantsare not in there (probably too new) , but I found the specs here http://www.burnham.com/pdf/radiant_lit.pdf

+ Using FloPro Designer (freely downloadable from link on this site's Home Page http://www.taco-hvac.com/flopro_landing.html) my recommended BTU for living spaces is 56190 (I fine tuned proper ceiling height and building materials, roof type etc.. I did not include in the above calculation closets or storage spaces. Additionally, I roughed the room dimensions in my head so this may change a bit.)



TO DO:

+ Tap my mains and add the Gorton #2s (one on each) (Do the vents absolutely have to after the last take-off? My mains have takeoffs just a few inches (3-4") from the ends.)

+ Think about attacking my constricted returns.

jpf321

update for today....

i was able to tap 1 main and get one of my #2s installed .. it was a real bear between the tight space and not having quite the right drill bits or an angle drill. too bad I have another main to vent .. i'm not looking forward to the fight again :-(



I wasn't able to do any timing tests. I did notice that the Ventor #40starts to vent at about 10oz of pressure. I may just JB-Weld the vent hole shut.



Anyway, I feel that I really accomplished something today.

jpf321

daily update

TODAY'S NEWS

I tapped in my 2nd G#2 today. It went much easier than yesterday since I borrowed a neighbors angle drill and I learned a few lessons yesterday.



Additionally, I removed the old small vents that were on the vertical returns and replaced them with old G#Cs that I pulled from rads the other days when I replaced all rad vents. I venture a guess that these G#Cs are in better shape than the old rad vents that were in place there and since they are no longer a necessary part of the venting, i'm comfortable with leaving them there for the moment.



NEW TIMING

I looked above at my original "steam to end of main times" ..

Before re-venting the rads and adding the main vents...

55ft main = 13min

65ft main = 21 min

NOW.. new rad vents and added a G#2 on each main

55ft main = 11min

65ft main = 13min

additionally, the boiler may have been colder with the new times since I had it off for a while tapping. if I find the times changed on a warmer (170degF) boiler I will update.



what's left:

-- Dealing with cleaning my wet return.

-- Inspecting/Working on a possibly defective rad valve on 3rd floor.

-- wire in "hour meter" which is currently on order.

jpf321

current update and new timing

Just an FYI ..

I have the hour meter, but have not yet wired it in.

Yesterday I insulated all mains.



My new timing from 170degF boiler-on to end of mains is now:

MAIN 1 - 65ft - 10min 30sec (Original time: 21mins)

MAIN 2 - 55ft - 8min 30 sec (Original time: 13mins)

(The insulation made about a 2 1/2min difference in each main)



MAIN 1 has EDR load of 182sf, vent req. 1.435cfm (pipe+rad), vent capacity 2.22cfm (main+rads)

MAIN 2 has EDR load of 190sf, vent req. 1.516cfm (pipe+rad), vent capacity 2.40cfm (main+rads)



I am currently working on replacing the tops of all rad enclosures with open tops rather than closed tops. (Currently the tops are removed)



I fixed the bad rad valve on 3rd floor.

jpf321

updated pics

I updated my system pics (see all pics from signature link) including a few pics of my new equipment.





V-Stat set-up 1



V-Stat set-up 2



V-Stat set-up 3



Hour-meter



crud Collecting Magnet on sight-glass 1



crud Collecting Magnet on sight-glass 2



Original label 1



Original label 2

Steamhead

One change you will want to make

is to repipe the gauge/pressuretrol/Vaporstat manifold so there are two separate pigtails: one for each set of gauge and control. That way if one pigtail gets plugged, it won't disable the whole array. Both pigtails can be hooked up to the same boiler tapping if that's all you have, but it is best to pipe them onto completely separate tappings.



Like this.

jpf321

i considered it .. however

since the p-trol is there as a safety backup i'd prefer to have it on the same pigtail .. this way, if the single pigtail is blocked then both are broken but more importantly both are fixed when the block is cleared ..



if they are on 2 pigs, then if the p-trol gets blocked, I might never know it if the v-stat side stays clear... thereby, my safety backup is quietly failed and may not be known until too late.



i guess what i'm saying is generally your backup safety should be failed and fixed along with your primary control device. if there were two identical and redundant backup v-stats then different pigtails and ports might be warranted, but i'd still keep a saftey p-trol on the same pig as a v-stat.



does my reasoning seem sound?



ON THE OTHER HAND .. after more thought .. I see your point .. assuming the problem with a plugged pig is that pressure will be indicated as abnormally LOW .. if they are on single pig .. neither will shut down. .. but I think you can also appreciate my point of having the safety quietly failed if they are split. so .. what's the answer?



i suppose it's a much better  to assume that a quiet failure is less likely than than a single point catastrophic failure where neither will shutdown. AND be sure to clear BOTH pigs every time you clean 1 pig.



FYI, I do have another port or 2 .. isn't there a port out of the top of the #67 LWCO that I can use? Additionally, I can put the p-trol back where it was originally, down near the aquastat.



Incidentally, how often do pigs get plugged? And is there a way to prevent it? Would a longer rise before the loop help to dry the steam and prevent crud from accumulating? Do they make see-through pigs? and if not why? They seem to be as important a safety issue as having enough water (see through sight-glass).

nicholas bonham-carter

pigtail arrangement

nice documentation of an old, nicely maintained system!!!!!

you can also use two pigtails, joined at the top. if you use unions, then the whole thing can be cleanned out without disconnecting the wiring from the p-trols. make sure that the height of the p-trols is above the skimming level, or during skimming the water-height pressure could trip the p-trol.--nbc