Diagram For Wet Return Flush Valve ?

SteamHeat

On page 42 of Dan's book "A Pocketful Of Steam Problems ( With Solutions )" he writes about a flush valve system on a wet return line ...



<em>"You install a gate valve on the [wet] return line, just before it enters the Hartford Loop. Right before the gate valve, install a tee with a full size, full-port ball valve."</em>



Does anyone have a diagram for this that they can post ?



Thanks for any help.

Unknown

Valves for flushing.

This varies on each installation.  A gate or a full flow ball valve is installed on the wet return just before it attaches to the Hartford Loop ( Below the elbow and close nipple). This valve is used to stop the water and crud entering the boiler during the flushing.

The Tee mentioned is used instead of an elbow where the wet return leaves the floor and goes vertical to attach to the Hartford loop. A full port ball valve is attached to this tee to allow you to flush the wet return.

  When piping the lower (wet)`piping around the boiler, it is a good idea to use tee and drain valve instead of an elbow at strategic points to facilitate draining and flushing the boiler and piping.

I've attached a photo of a wet return with drains. This brilliant piping design was done by Steve Gronsky. Note the strategically placed drain valves and how the make-up fresh water pipe was attached so that it  flushes the wet return. Having the fresh water attached here to the wet return has the added value of mixing with the warm water first before entering the boiler which lessens the chance of thermal shock to the boiler.

- Rod

SteamHeat

Fantastic !

Rod,



Thank you very much.  The picture and the description is great. This is very helpful. Much appreciated.



One question which is the wet return line in the picture? I was expecting to see a pipe near the floor, but when I enlarged the image, there wasn't one.

SteamHeat

I Think I Figured It Out.

Rod,



I found your October post with a front view of this setup. It is counterflow isn't it?



That would mean that the two pipes on the right side are BOTH wet returns.



Do you have any pictures or diagrams of a parallel flow setup?



Thanks again.

Unknown

Wet Return

As i mentioned it varies with each installation.  I'm not quite sure of the direction you are going as the return setup in the picture was indeed from a counter flow system though it would been the same configuration if the mains were parallel and the returns dropped down at the same location. Whether or not the system was parallel or counterflow is of no significance in this case.



It the picture they are both wet returns. A "wet return" is what the return piping is called when it is below the boiler's waterline. If the return pipe is vertical while being the same piece of pipe, it is called a "dry return" above the water line and a "wet return" below the waterline.  I found this a bit confusing when I was first learning about steam.



Since we've mentioned counterflow, just so it doesn't cause confusion, this method of piping a counterflow main is quite different than the diagram on Page 83 of "The Lost Art..." and is superior in my opinion and that is why I saved a picture of this configuration. I'll post the picture again for your reference. This counterflow system  was done by Steve Gronski. You have to really respect the piping masterpieces these steam pros do. Note the way the main risers exit the header at a 45* angle. This allows condensate running back down the risers to flow into the header rather than drop through the steam stream. It's always easy to spot a job by a steam pro as the detail has been well thought out.



I'm sorry I don't have a good picture of a wet return on a parallel system. You might want to look at Gerry Gill's website http://www.gwgillplumbingandheating.com/

as he has got some good pictures posted. His work is excellent and one can learn a lot by studying his photos.

- Rod



 

SteamHeat

I Think I Understand Now.

Thanks Rod,



I think I understand where the valves go now. The pictures on their website are very impressive, and they have come up with some creative setups. I am awed by the creativity of many of these pro's.



My system is parallel flow and my wet return runs along about 1" above the floor. I was trying to figure out the physical layout of all the drain valves / flush valves /  isolation valves for the wet return, boiler mud leg, bottom of the equalizer etc. I think I got it now.



Many thanks from this student.

Unknown

Further Thoughts

I was re-reading your original post and thought I might mention this. In your your orignal post you quote Dan "install a tee with a full size, full-port ball valve"  This is at the turn where the wet return goes vertical to join the Hartford Loop.  A lot of times you'll see only a drain valve attached to this tee. Having a full flow ball valve here makes it easy to flush the floor segment of the wet return where all the crud settles. It's a good idea to place a plug in the end of the ball valve as an extra safety precaution especially if you have young kids. Another good idea is to remove the valve handle. This prevents "accidents".  Just mentally go through how you would do the flushing step by step and you'll soon visualize where you need valves etc.  I have a  "Y" plumbed into my dry return just above the water line so I can stick a water hose in there to flush the line. If your wet return is copper, there was a suggestion back last winter that you could tape some powerful magnets to the line near the valve as this would catch rust fragments that you could then blow off occasionally.

- Rod

Ex Maine Doug

A good flush never hurt anyone.....

Here is crude that settles out of the LWCO weekly flush on the steamer in son's house.  Makes you wonder where all this stuff comes from.  The right valves in the right places for a clean happy system- what a concept!

-Doug

SteamHeat

Wet Return Catharsis.

Yes, Rod you're right. I gave it a good long stare from end to end and it was obvious where the Elbows should be replaced with Tee's and Valves. I wonder after 70 years whether some steam pressure suddenly released like described in the book or a good blast with a garden hose is enough to loosen the crud that has accumulated. I hope someone did some kind of clean up in the past.



Doug, that looks like a copper plated semi-crushed styrofoam cup. Very unnerving. I hope my new boiler does not get too crudded up from the residue from the old boiler.

Ex Maine Doug

On list for service

I am on All Steamed Up Inc.'s list for service.  The boiler is an earlier replacement in the four square house. The whole "system" needs service. Missing main vent, rads not pitched right, probably never had the returns flushed, uninsulated pipes.   The 94 year old PO moved into the house when she was 11 when her parents bought it. She would flush the LWCO and add water up until she became too frail to make it back up the basement stairs so a neighbor took over the task.   Many of the steam systems in the neighborhood have been removed unfortunately.



The lot used to extend to the center of the 4 lane Route 2 and people used to sit on the front porch and watch the horse carts carrying produce on the dirt road to Baltimore City .