hey there Mr.Yates

GREG LAUER

what were you doing at a Daikin seminar? I thought you were a fijitsu fan?

you know once you come to the darkside you can't go back. :)



IT WAS EDITED BECAUSE THERE WERE PDF'S FOR THIS ATTACHED BUT THEY WERE REMOVED, SORRY DAN DID NOT KNOW.

Mark Eatherton

He's a SMART man....

pursuing intelligent, variable speed technologies, and he isn't afraid to cross over product lines to find what he wants and needs.



I'm still Aiken for someone to bring out a VS compressor for use i the GSHP field...



ME

GREG LAUER

i agree

I cannot believe no one has this yet. this is why Daikin is beating geo in eff. they are beating them in price because the wells cost so much.

geo has one other setback it needs back up heat, I dont know of any manufacture that has a unit with a scr heat package to help that running cost. you can get them but not as a factory otion that I have seen.

not against geo, we have a water to water system heating our sheetmetal shop. It has its place

I am glad he was there after busting my chops a few months ago about Daikin vs fijitsu.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)

Hah! Will surprises never cease(G).

ME - You knew the answer(G). Like a bad penny............



Never said I didn't like the product and it's always been on the list of products we consider - when it's the best choice for our customers. Where were you sitting & wish you'd have said hello.



The dude what was presenting needs to get himself a tad more edumacated re the product and its capabilities. As for the question from the rear of the room re radiant cooling, I had to bite my tongue off to not shout out "yes you can" and get three to healthyheating.com for the necessary info. Wasn't my class & I wasn't looking to be out of line.



The unit has loads of apps & he blew it regarding discussing much of anything beyond radiant and missed a golden opportunity to get into lots of really fat juicy opportunities for savvy contractors who do their homework. Same for using baseboard & Slant Fin has an excellent chart for low-temp outputs. For that matter, the opportunity to qualify what constitutes a low-temp radiant system should have been included. In the example he cited of a baseboard retrofit job with this product where "it remains to be seen if it will work", I dang near fell off my chair! Heat loss + feet of BB + heat output at low temps = answer, not an I guess it might work. He did touch on the lowered COPs at higher water temps, but could have made that issue crystal-clear by tying the efficiencies to well-designed low-temp systems. I'd like to think the hard work you & I put into our design-homework would be something the manufacturers would be drilling into everyone's collective heads. Besides which, that would add value to what we do and raise the bar for the industry.



I was also disappointed by the response regarding the question about max output at the -4F temp. There's a chart somewhere.  



Dan Foley just installed one of these units, so hopefully we'll see some feedback from him here.   

GREG LAUER

cost

I understand the codo project mentioned was about 35-40 per month in cooling. The owner moved in early and was monitoring this. I dont think the guy clairfied that the cost was a/c. I hear he had it jacked way down also.

GREG LAUER

OH YEAH

I was also disappointed by the response regarding the question about max output at the -4F temp. There's a chart somewhere

Me to knowing how well the VRV works I was waiting for thim to show a chart and hear ohhhhh........ahhhh.......... but he fell flat. I bet he is better prepaired next time.

I think the info is trickling, this has been in eu for some time now so the data is there just need converting .............dang metric system

Wayco Wayne_2

I went to a Daikin class yesterday

was sitting right next to Mr Foley. He said the customer approached him about the Altherma product and before that he wasn't aware of it. We may have had the same instructor because the topic meandered. Also lots of products showed that arent here yet. Any day now. Just around the corner. You betcha. Don't hold your breath. Ha!  

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)

It's a brave new world

and it's about darned time too! Efficiencies & technology changing at the speed of light - better than any ride at Disney's Fantasy Land! Hang on lads & lasses, grab a ride and buckle-up cause there's gonna be some twists, turns, and more than a few unexpected bumps(G).



They'd best get those auxillary items over here pronto or else their competition will & we've seen what happens to those who think we'll wait while others ply us with sweet and timely products that are increasingly becomming plug-n-play.



Good grief these are exciting times to be in the trades! As ME noted - just wait'll GSHP mfgrs bring on the inverters. 28-SEER & 4.5-COP will be left in the dust.



I'm still adjusting to the fact that the new breeds of heat pumps are the least expensive way to heat a home - even when compared to 95% eff modcons - and that inverters don't need aux toasters for emergency heat. Never thought I'd live to see that be true.

GREG LAUER

hold on

I dont know how familiar you are with Daikin but they do not launch anthing that is not solid. They have so much new tech in the wings. When the aux products come and a year is a solid number for them it will be tryed true and tested. Daikin has a GLOBAL failure rate of less that one tenth of one percent!!!!!!!!!!

You install it properly and then become the Maytag man. the reliability is above all others.

The vrv has been around in the states now for about 5 years and we are just now seeing 5 and 8 ton a/h becacuse the mid commercial market demands it. I see something like a school being ran on a bank of vrv condensers and the 3000 plus foot of line set being able to run to all of the class rooms and all of the rooftops at any tonnage with there buy out of McQuay. I also see a home where the heating, cooling, refrigerator and domestic hot water are all connected to the Daikin condenser. Bring it on I AM READY. But I also understand not rushing something into the market that ends up with problems and needs constant upgrades yada yada anyone heard of the Queitside oil boiler???? I just got chills. sit back and wait for the the cream of the crop to rise. It seems for some reason if it is hot in EU it takes forever to get here.

Again the Quietside big problem here in US but runs great in Korea their fuel oil is much more refined than ours it was rushed into the market and then endless r and d was needed and hundreds of units swapped out or replaced with every new solution. they finally moved the r and d to carlise pa where the dist center was and I THINK THEY FINALLY got it right. Daikin does not work like that.

I agree with Dave good times are a coming brush off your thinking caps because the normal is gonna change.