Combined 1 & 2 pipe steam

Steve_210

I have a job where the boiler was replaced approximately 2 years ago with a Burnham IN 5 140,000 BTU"s input, 115,000 DOE heating capacity. This is a 4 story townhouse plus a cellar where the boiler is. The main house is all 1 pipe steam, there is an extension approximately 30 years old  with 2 pipe steam including steam traps. There are 2 F&T traps installed in the extension side of the house, they join the supply to the dry return. I'll try get some pictures tomorrow as I did not have my camera with me. Questions; Firstly, when the riser comes off the boiler, it tee's off in 2" to the equalizer then continues up to a 3" header - not sure if this is correct. Secondly I think the boiler may be undersized as the only way I could get the 2 pipe radiators to heat up was to shut off the 1 pipe rads. This was also the only way I could get the boiler to reach the 2 pound cut out pressure.  This is a typical townhouse, basement level we have 2 radiators, on the ground floor we have 5 radiators - 3 one pipe, 2 two pipe (in the extension), 2nd floor 3 one pipe rads and 1 two pipe. There is also 1 riser with 4, 2x1 tee's making up two 1" loops (no valve or steam trap). On the 3rd floor we have 4 one pipe radiators. i  have the lost art book any advise would be greatly appricated

Unknown

Combined Steam

My experience is only with one pipe steam so I'm afraid I'm not of much help to you. The guy you need to talk to is Gerry Gill or Steamhead. The riser /equalizer doesn't sound right.  Pictures would really help. Does the 2 pipe system have its own steam riser?  The steam pressure is on the high side of the envelope I would try to get the system to work at a lower` pressure.     I read a post the other day that said with a undersized system TRVs are a big help. Which makes sense - if the room (TRV) temperature is satisfied then the steam can move on to another radiator. Just a thought. 

Steve_210

Combined 1 & 2 pipe steam

Here are some pictures. The 2 pipe side does have its own riser. I have reduced the pressure as much as this pressuretrol will allow. I have also suggested TRV's to the owner. I added a second Gorton No:2 where there was only 1 before (this is a long horizontal run to a 2 pipe radiator) I also added a vent to the return in the basement (return is from all the 2 pipe radiators). Our contract was to install the in floor radiator and the new wall mounted steam radiator. I have now got them working well, I think just with extra vents. But I would love to understand more about this system. I cannot understand why the F&T traps are needed? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Rod -thanks for getting back to me.

Steve_210

combined 1 & 2 pipe steam

pictures

Steve_210

more pictures

pictures

Steve_210

more pictures

pictures

Unknown

Boiler Piping

The piping near the boiler is wrong. Here's the link to the Burnham IN I&O manual http://www.burnham.com/pdf/Independence_io.pdf



Look on page 17 at the "alternate" piping. This is how it should have  been done.  While they  state on that model you can use one steam riser coming out of the boiler, if there are multiple steam openings on the system your always better to use all you can.  The basic measurement parameters and configuration of the manual must be followed .The factory drawings  are minimums and one can make slight improvements.



As it is covered with asbestos I can't quite see in the picture what the configuration of the piping is right above the boiler, where the steam pipe from the boiler connects the mains. Is this where the main splits to the one pipe and two pipe branches?



What you might want to do is make a drawing of the system showing the piping and where the radiators are connected and vents ,traps etc. are located. It doesn't have to be to scale just something where we can get a mental picture of the steam flow.



You were worried about the size of the boiler .Here is a chart table you can use to do a survey. Use the info in "the Lost Art.." to guide you.

http://www.ecrinternational.com/secure/upload/document/414.pdf

What pressure has the system been running at?

- Rod

Steve_210

pictures

pictures

Steve_210

Combined 1 & 2 pipe steam

Does anyone have anymore information on these combined systems? I figure there should be only 1 F&T trap and the end of the 2  pipe main and the dry return should be vented. Any help would be greatly appreciated.