Cash for Clunkers

EricAune

They are investing right now and through 2010.

Don't forget to see the where this cash for clunkers and Federal Tax Credit is really coming from.....YOU.

They are only going to give you your money in return for buying a new car. Its your money already, there is no real discount. You have and will pay for it.

AND...the perfectly good cars they are taking in on trade (most are fine and plenty efficient) are ordered destroyed in order to receive the credit. This seems counter intuitive; there are many people that could benefit by the the low cost of those "clunkers".

Sorry to rant, but this is just another area the government has not done business in the past and should stay away from apparently.

Peace

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

gotta admit

We're back looking at the fuel efficient Prius again(G). The 2010 solar model.

But, looking at other cars too and checking those fuel stickers for projected costs to fill-er-up for a year - at today's cost per gallon - like that's gonna be a cost frozen in time!!!

Got me to thinking (a dangerous thing, so my spouse is fond of reminding me - after I goof up) that the Feds need a check-up from the neck-up. If they're willing to give me $4,500 to buy a vehicle that must only achieve 21-MPG (pedestrian mileage compared to many models available) to meet the max, which would save me less than $500.00 per year on gas - then what's a modcon worth if it cuts fuel consumption by up to 70% and has the potential to save the average homeowner $1,350.00 to $3,100.00 per year (if annual heating costs are $4,500.00)??? Seriously, most folks spend a whole lot more on fuel consumption to drive their furnaces, boilers & water heaters than they do on fuel to drive their cars & SUVs.

Think of the ROI if the Feds were willing to invest in buildings' fuel consumption the way they are for vehicles. Boggles the imagination.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_15

yes, but...

imagine if the Feds were willing to throw $4,500.00 into the mix for new high-efficiency boilers, furnaces & water heaters!

Hopefully they'll extend the existing 30% up to $1,500.00 past 2010. Just sold another 98% eff tankless yesterday because of that incentive.

Jean-David Beyer

I am sure this could be figured out.

If we get a $4500 refund for buying a so-called fuel efficient car, and only $1500 for buying a fuel-efficient boiler, am I being treated fairly?

Imagine I run an oil-fired boiler (I no longer do). I might burn 400 gallons of #2 a year. And I drive a car that uses, say, 8 gallons a week of gasoline (I do not drive much), which is about 400 gallons a year too. (I am making up the numbers, but they are about right for me.) So I replace the car with one that needs only 300 gallons a year, and I replace the oil-burner with one that uses only 300 gallons a year, should I not get about the same refund, rebate, or whatever you call taking the tax money out of one of my pockets and putting it back in the other?

I suppose what they really want is to subsidize the American automobile companies without calling it that, and they do not want to subsidize the American boiler companies. Why would that be? Probably because they want to get more turnover. People keep their boilers longer than their cars. I know I do. I would like to keep my brand new boiler with aluminum heat exchanger for another 30 years, even if I must replace the heat exchanger 15 years from now. But I do not believe I would keep a car that long, even with an engine transplant.

I guess there is more planned obsolescence in automobiles than in boilers.

Baltimore/Maine Doug_9

The US economy

is very much an auto centric system rather than boilers and heating. An auto centric economy has inherant weakness and instability especially with gas pricing.

The incentive like the cash for clunkers has requirements that are to low in my opinion.

Perhaps all incentives related to all fuels should be based on btu content. Save a million btu's a year- here is is your incentive!

Rich Kontny_3

Incentive

Is working. I have a niece who has a boyfriend who is at a new Toyota dealership in Ashland WI. They had over thirty cash for clunker sales. They do indeed have to destroy those clunkers.

This brings in credit worthy customers same as the type of customer we get who want to upgrade. The concept was started in Europe to jump start their auto sales.

Phil_6

It's not about the environment, silly...

...It's about taking your money, giving it back to you to buy a car from (hopefully) YOUR car manufacturers, GM or Chrysler, to pay the workers that helped elect the people who are taking your money...get it? It goes like this "If you vote for me I'll steal someone else's money and pay you back for the favor with it"

You can buy a new Jeep Cherokee here for about 60% of the list price. It will get maybe 15 mpg going down hill with the wind at your back. And they throw in lifetime service, oil changes inspections, loaner car etc. So Chrysler, or should I say the US gov't, will give you a WELL over $10,000 to buy a gas guzzling Grand Cherokee, But only $4500 if you go with the Prius.

Ten grand will buy a lot of gas. Be a man and pass on the Prius ;-)

Wayco Wayne_2

I just talked to a

couple who used the cash for clunkers to get the 2010 Prius. They were told it has no fan belts or linkages. Nothing to where out, eh? Me likey. They took a trip the day after from DC to Assateque Island and back on less than a tank of gas. At the cuurent price of gas it may take a long time to make up the difference in cost, but it IS possible the price of gas may go up again sometime soon. That may change things. (Dave, Have you seen the TV show Solar Showdown? It's about the 2007 Solar Decathalon. It has Dan Foley helping out U of MD. TV face time for the Danster. Good show) WW

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

Have not seen it, but

I was there with Dan & his crew. Dan kept telling the film crew to concentrate on the students, not him. The flooring contractor had punctured several loops & had refused to return to help the students. The project had stalled. Two of the students researched on-line and on the same night read an article in Contractor and contacted me by e-mail asking if I'd visit to lend a hand. I agreed and asked what products they'd used. Warmboard.

Knowing Warmboard does cad drawings for installs, I contacted them. Sure enough they had and sent me copies. They asked If I knew the student contractor advisor for the project - Dan Foley! I contacted Dan and it became a reunion assist at U of MD.

Once Pappa located the general location, we let the students begin taking up the hardwood. After about an hour (Dan & his crew were helping the students in the outdoor mechanical room.) of beating on the floor with a hammer & chisel, the student resigned himself to using a circular saw as we'd suggested in the beginning(G).

Tubing turned out to be punctured under built-in & immovable cabinets, so those loops were cut off and a straight-through splice was made. That they were able to pull it together and get that SD entry finished was nothing short of a miracle! That they almost won was too cool for words.

As for the CfC incentive? You get nothing for your trade-in except the CfC cash. In our case, our Jimmy is worth what we'd get anyway. It's paid for & it runs just fine. Don't like the mileage, but we will probably wait to see what kind of mileage US cars can muster. Our big three missed the American desire for fuel-efficient vehicles and willingness to pay for hybrids by a planetary light-year. I've got mixed feelings about this thinly disguisded bailout & wonder what's going to happen when the 3-billion is gone - by next week if the pace of sales keeps up. I also wonder - looking forward - what's going to happen at the end of 2010 when the 30% or max of $1,500.00 runs out for owners who upgrade their buildings energy efficiency.

The mileage requirements for CfC is, IMHO, a farce. Way too low. The only shame for those buying a Prius should be on the part of those within the big three who ignored the rising tide and forged ahead producing gas guzzlers. The American public voted with their wallets and Toyota sales soared. US ingenuity is second to none when faced with a crisis. There's no reason why the big three can't produce vehicles that surpass in both mileage and quality.

Really doesn't go against the US work force no matter whose vehicle you purchase if the vehicles are built in the US. They all have pieces & parts brought in from foreign countries (including the big 3) and then get assembled inside the US by US workers.

JJ_4

Civic built in USA!

The Civic I just bought through Cash for Clunkers was assembled in Indiana. Engine built in US, transmission in Japan, 60% US parts, 40% "foreign" parts.

Our clunker...a 1996 Astro LT AWD, 101K miles, 15 mpg...worth only about $2500, but I got the $4500. We had it 10 years and it got us through the early kids years. The Civic is a 15 year car for us...to get us to retirement....and you can't beat over doubling the mpg of the Astro!

KevinCorr

Rules

Don't the rules say no politics on this forum. That is a rule I agree with. The HVAC forum is ruined by the nut job politics so you lose interest in discussing the trade with a bunch of dumb asses.

Charlie Masone

Cash for Clunkers

A car can cost about three times what a boiler replacement costs, thus 4500 vs 1500 seems to make sense.  Also you are trading in a car that may have had a trade in of 2500 anyway so there is only a gain of 2000 on the Cash for clunkers deal.

EricAune

NOT MY POST

I didn't start this post, I do not know why it says it was me.  The first post was a response to prior posts.  Missing the whole idea of the conversation I guess.

Peace