Grundfos UP15-38SPA Circulation Pump v. Taco 007

bill garnett_2

Did you put in 007 bronze ? I would think that would have a better chance than the iron body. Either way all the chemicals are probably going to make for a shorter life. Love Taco circs !

anthony_24

Grundfos UP15-38SPA Circulation Pump V. Taco 007

This weekend I helped a friend replace a grundfos circulater with a Taco 007 for his Spa. The reason was the Taco was less then half the price. The only problem I see is that the Taco has not been tested for this application according to it's instructions. It works perfectly and quieter then the Grundfos. The Spa is properly grounded with GFI circuit breakers. Does anyone have any opinion on what we did?
Thanks in advance for your help and advice.

Jean-David Beyer

Their instruction sheet says:

"WARNING: Do not use in swimming pool or spa areas; pump has not been investigated for this application."

Now maybe their lawyers make them say that, but maybe they know something about their pumps and life-safety issues. Or maybe they are sure they do not know that they dare not take the risk of recommending them.

Paul Pollets

Correct pump spec

You'll need a bronze or stainless steel circ pump for this application. The iron body will corrode...and often add a brownish-red stain to the water.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

anthony_24

I don't know, I bought it Home Depot, it was about $80.00.

KevinCorr

At that price it was not the bronze.

S Ebels_2

Simple answer

That 007 has an iron body. Iron as not suitable for an open system like your friends spa. The chemical in the water will eat it. Your friend may experience staining in his tub and the circ will not "live long and prosper". Not a good choice.

Jean-David Beyer

Taco 007 circulators...

These are also available, at least in the catalog, in bronze or 304 stainless (presumably at higher cost. Probably more suited for high chlorine and open system work.

Lil-Roc

Why is a TACO product @ Home Depot???? It shouldn't be.

DanHolohan

I believe

it's because wholesalers buy from Taco reps and resell to Home Depot. It's the way business works in America. Home Depot sells all sort of brand names. I have no problem with any of it. It's capitalism, and I'm a huge fan of capitalism.

Empire_2

Agreed Dan H. But,..........

The man who helped this guy probably said this pump would work when in fact I would insist on the Bronze style pump just for the reasons on air and chemicals.....Peace!

Mike T.

S Ebels_2

Capitalism........

Unbridled by the moral restraint of being honest, knowledgeable and truthful about what you are selling is a terrible thing.

I have seen literally dozens of infloor jobs done with non barrier tubing in the last few years here. The common denominator in all of them was advice from Home Depot. If you are going to assume the task of selling something to a customer, you must also assume the responsibility of knwoing what you are doing for the sake of your fellow man.

my $.02

Leo

An informed buyer

Why would one listen to the guy at Home Depot? You are dealing with a kid learning, a guy laid off from who knows where, or someone who just can't make it anywhere else.
Buyer beware.

Leo

Jean-David Beyer

"Why would one listen to the guy at Home Depot?"

When I put in my photographic darkroom on the top floor of my house, I needed two vacuum breakers (one for hot, one for cold) because hoses from the laundry spigot and Lawler pressure-temperature regulating valve would end up in the processing solutions -- or they could. I went to a place called Rickels (like Home Despot, now out of business) that sold plumbing supplies and they did not even have vacuum breakers. I then found a plumbing supply house and they had them and knew what they were for. 30 years passed, the original vacuum breakers were at the end of their useful life, and I tried both Home Despot and Lowes and they did not even know what a vacuum breaker was for. The plumbing supply place I used previously had gone out of business. I finally found another plumbing supply house and got them.

I once met a greeter at a "lumber yard" place. I knew the guy because he used to work at Bell Telephone Laboratories where I worked, but he got layed off. Now he may have been a good telephone system designer or something, but that did not necessarily qualify him to sell lumber or paint or whatever. Or worse, to give advice on it.

I would not even have wanted Albert Einstein to install my new hot water boiler system. (I assume he did not know much about the practical application of heating systems and hydraulics.)

Constantin

But people have to eat...

... your former colleague probably would have preferred a design job rather than being a greeter at HD. I have to believe that the working hours, pay, and benefits are better. Yet, a lot of people who one would not expect on the floor do work there at HD... I know a Harvard MBA who worked the floor for years. Another MBA resume submitted to me listed pizza delivery as latest job... Lots of people are being shed, for the right and the wrong reasons.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with working a different job, depending on the situation it could show that the candidate would rather work any job, even one that they're overqualified for, rather than pulling welfare.

The problems being described above are not limited to Lowes, HD, or similar big box stores, supply houses, even professionals in the field can make the same mistakes. Remember the job in Maine that NRT.Rob and I helped tackle? That disaster of a heating system had been designed by a supply house and installed per print. It didn't work well but it wasn't the installers "fault"... he had followed the print! Would another professional have done a better job? Maybe...

To me, the real question is how qualified the person is that I am talking to, regardless of where they work or what they do. I like to come prepared with a couple of related questions that I know the answers to... then put him/her to the test. If they fail the easy ones, I don't even bother with the more complicated stuff I'm scratching my head over. Bottom line is, it's your responsibility to learn enough about whatever you need to do/have someone else do to be dangerous. Cheers!

:-D

Jean-David Beyer

"To me, the real question is how qualified the person is that I am talking to, regardless of where they work or what they do."

Absolutely. For me as a homeowner, not a (in this case) heating professional, how do I tell if the potential contractor is qualified or not? The Better Business Bureau seems to like all the contractors that are members of the BBB. And they may be correct. OTOH, I have seen some really bad heating installations -- such as that at my nearby Quaker Meeting house (200 year old building originally heated by three coal burning pot bellied stoves). We have had that one worked on by several service contractors, and the first few were pretty bad and did not know how to twin the two hot air furnaces, clean heat exchangers, how electrical stuff worked, ... . We eventually decided to replace it all and start again. One thing we realized was that there was no need to twin the furnaces, but to have two zones and use one furnace for each. We interviewed three contractors. One would not arrange an appointment, saying we had to wait around until he came. So he was off the list. The second did not make any measurements, did not do a heat loss calculation, or ask the right questions. So we went with the third contractor who did all those things, and things work now.

When I wanted my 55 year old oil burning boiler replaced with a gas one, I wanted to know what questions to ask, so I would have a clue as to the abilities of the contractors. So I read John Siegenthaler's book, "Modern Hydronic Heating...". One of the possible contractors was the one who did the work at the Quaker Meeting house, since I knew them and they had done good work, including the annual checkups. The other one that I knew did mostly oil heating work (and is the local oil delivery company) and very little experience in mod/con boilers. Since I have radiant heat, mod/con seemed the way to go, though.

So I selected the one who did the installation at my Quaker Meeting. The work looks well done. It certainly runs the indirect-fired water heater for $0.58 per day, but that is not a difficult test. Only winter will tell how well it will work at heating the house, but I did the heat loss calculations, etc., just to be sure we were in the right ballpark in boiler sizing. But how many homeowners would go to that much trouble?

I find understanding how the various systems in my house work very interesting, but most people do not. My closest friends do not know how to work a simple thermostat and do not want to know. So I know more about home heating than any of my friends. This does not qualify me to design or install a home heating system though.

Constantin

Just you wait...

Once energy prices start taking out more than single-digits percentages of peoples income, knowledge about heating and cooling systems will once more become valuable. The contractors here are ahead of the curve, choosing to educate themselves rather than accepting the status quo and being behind the curve when the coming price shift hits.

Like you, I am but an interested homeowner. But I've learned a lot from the folk here, some of which has helped me in my professional work as well as in my home.

Jean-David Beyer

Once energy prices start taking ...

I wonder about that. A lot of people do not understand the difference between initial cost and total cost of ownership. And even those that do may not go for efficiency or reliability. If they are only going to keep the house for a few years, why would they wish to put in more money up front to lower the total cost of ownership? I expect to live here the rest of my life. So that will be a lot of gas burned.

But it is still a gamble. I selected a boiler with an aluminum heat exchanger (W-M Ultra 3) because of its other characteristics, and because that is what the contractor I selected recommended and that they had the most experience with. I did check with the water company what we would be putting in there.

Parameter W-M allowed range Actual

pH 7.0 to 8.5 7.2 to 7.6

hardness < 7 grains about 6 grains

Chlorine < 200 ppm < 2 ppm

So that should be OK, although W-M say it should be checked every year. I wonder how that is done because I tested the water coming out the tap with pH paper and comes out somewhat acid that way. I know just enough chemistry to be dangerous, and I believe I am not getting good readings. I know tap water is not buffered and if a little CO2 dissolves in it, it will read like that. So I wonder how my contractor will do the test. Would they use a pH meter? How do they handle the problem of the CO2 in the air? Heat the water to drive off the dissolved gasses?