Who are you?

SpeyFitter

I don't intend to waste bandwidth there, but perhaps a bit of a get to know you type of thread?

To start - I am a 29 year old Journeyman Plumber & Gasfitter who has been in the trade of Plumbing/Gasfitting for just over 5 years, having gotten my Canadian Inter-Provincial Plumbing Ticket early last year as well as my 'B' Gasfitting license. I live in a suburb of Vancouver, BC, and work throughout Vancouver and it's suburbs.

I started the trade working by taking a pre-apprenticeship course in 2004 and got a job right out of school. My first company I work for did a few commercial Plumbing/Gasfitting jobs, as well as large condo projects where we did Plumbing/Gasfitting in all the units. Certainly good skills experience but I yearned for something more quite quickly and I also realize the trades boom and good working conditions weren't going to laste forever so I figured I had to specialize - I was already running jobs, as an apprentice for my last company, put it that way. So after nearly 2 years working for my first company I made the strictly business decision between school sessions to switch to my current company whom I have been with since.

The current company I work for is an accomplished heating, plumbing, & hvac contractor that specializes in geothermal, hydronic installations. Naturally, we always tend to do more plumbing than hydronics since most contractors like having one mechanical contractor doing the entire mechanical scope of work on the houses we work on. The company started out quite small up until the past 3 years where it has bloomed. We used to have a small HVAC side, but now it's a serious force to be reckoned with. The company used to only be 5-7 guys - now its around 40-50. We have LOTS of jobs doing heating reno's, new construction, but lots of cutting edge type stuff.

Since working with the company I have found the hydronic heating end the most interesting. In fact I prefer doing hydronics over plumbing. I also really enjoy gas fitting as well. And I like doing high quality installations and using good products, which we tend to often do. But the past year I have been at a point where I have plateaued a bit. I am not learning as fastor as much as as I want to. The learning curve has been sorta steep for a while, but not as of late, but other than my boss, who doesn't have time at all, I am not learning anymore about hydronics. So I have taken the bull by the horns and I am using internet sites, researching books, etc.

Last fall I took a 6 weekend course to obtain my radiant panel/hydronic designers ticket. I have been buying books like crazy, for example I own John Siegenthalers Modern Hydronic heating, as well as I've bought a few of Dan's books off of this site within the past few monthes. And I constantly crave, and look for knowledge. My experience with boilers has been limited to a few electric boilers, and the company brand IBC's, which are good boilers. But I would like to become more well rounded and really learn to service these things now that I know how they work, sort of. I also really want some more knowhow in the controls department since I don't do any control installations myself, although I do understand some of the features of controls e.g. outdoor reset, etc.

My biggest hurdle has been finding an internet resource that is based around hydronic heating. The Ridgid and Plumbingzone forums are limited in the hydronic end. I've even tried gettin them to start a hydronic forum at plumbingzone with no bites. Up until recently when I found this site, Internet information has been scare, or the forums I have found, have been quite dead, or lacked contributors.

The other thing worth noting, is the trade of hydronic heating still doesn't get the attentin it deserves. We do have a Certified heating technician program that started recently, but I have most of the credits from that course from my plumbing/gas fitting tickets, as well as my radiant panel design ticket, so I honestly don't think I will learn anything by taking it. In fact my boss sits on the directors board for Teca, who began the course (Thermal Environmental Comfort Association).

So in a nutshell, I really appreciate a forum such as this. I realize hydronic heating still could garner a lot more attention, but there are some bright sides - more and more people are looking at it for heating.

Anyways, my aspirations are to learn as much as I can because somewhere down the road I could see myself potentially starting my own business catering specifically to people who want good quality hydronic heating systems in their house. I also really want to learn more about boiler servicing like I mentioned above.

Anyways, what I would like to hear from you is tell me a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today perhaps, what you or your company does specifically, , and also I would appreciate some advice or insight on what you think I can do to become better at servicing these things? I know of no courses locally, the only thing I can think of is to go to all the manufacturers boiler service courses on their specific boilers, etc.

The one mistake that I have learned from the company I currently work for is I don't think my boss did a very good job of taking his customers under his wing. For example I see myself, if I started my own hydronic heating company, picking 1 or 2 boiler brands to sell, each for a specific application, or market. And then learning them inside and out, and then each and every customer I install a system for, I will take "under my wing," so to speak and completely service their boilers as per manufacturers recommendations, and keep them a customer for life. But I would put a lot of thought into the boilers I would choose to put my name on. My boss kept records, but there was no protocols or system set up to automatically service what we've installed, so now the pieces are kinda getting picked up to get some kind of service program going but the program gets delayed with all these new/reno construction jobs we take on. Anyways...

Thanks for listening...

Rich Kontny_3

Impressive

Scott,
I am impressed with your enthusiasm and how you obviously are looking for a career not just a job. You will have no problem achievng your goals if you truly want them.

I started young as my dad was a plumber and I took my apprenticeship at age 17. Got my journeyman's license at age 22 and my master's in 1978. I subsequently tested for my Michigan, Minnesota and Georgia masters license. Had the Michigan boiler installers license and various certifications such as Weil McClain (boiler/burner), Kewanee Boiler/Burner, Gordan-Piatt burner and others.

Since I just turned 58 I can assure you that I have plateaued and use continuing education to keep me current with technology.I don't have any mountains I want to climb or dragons I need to slay. Instead I can look back on many fond memories and many friendships made. The trade has been very good to me and I truly have been blessed.

I was part of a mechanical contracting family that employed as many as 65 and we did many schools, hospitals, housing etc. I had many excellant tradesmen who trained me.
I have also worked for many fine contractors and have had the pleasure of meeting Dan several times. I worked for Frank Blau and his sons for several years and while I did not agree with their pricing methods I did learn a great deal about inventory control and marketing.

It is very refreshing to have someone like you who sees the opportunites and potential of this inustry and are willing to pursue them.

Your post made my day ! Best of luck to you!

Rich K.

DanHolohan

Scott,

you're a fine writer. Thanks for sharing your story so far. I enjoyed reading it. I'm glad you're here with us.

Glen Aspen_2

Thoughtful post -

I too started in the Vancouver area - it was a great place to live/work; if you are trekking down the "path" then I highly recommend the "A" gas fitting program at BCIT. Once you have achieved that you are then able to work on any boiler in BC - which makes you really atractive to Viessmann, Buderus, and IBC among others. Good luck.

SpeyFitter

Thanks

Thanks for the replies.

It's not that I think I have plateaued as far as knowledge - definately not, and I hope it wasn't taken that way. I think I have plateud in the working situation I am in as far as having someone to show me the in's and out's to the extent that I would like. My biggest vice when working with apprentices is I tend to try and tell them too much, but sometimes I have to realize they can only chew on so much. But what that is, is pride because I feel I want to be an expert so the customer has confidence in me, and so I can do a good job for the people I work for. I guess you can only learn so much, so fast, and you need some experience to fall back on too.

My boss, who basically is the only real hydronic guru in the company, can't tend to our training needs in the field. We also have a dedicated designer - actualy 2 designers, 1 HVAC, and 1 hydronic designer, but while our hydronic designer has a lot of different design tickets, I see a lack of detail sometime his designs and he doesn't seem into it as much as it seems. My field supervisor knows heating but not inside and out - servicing and controls aren't his strong point but he's pretty good with hydronics and plumbing. So like I said I guess I gotta grab the bull by the horns.

That point about taking the type A gas fitting is a good one, thanks for that. I'll look into it in about a year when I am eligible (you need to hold your 'B' gas fitting ticket for 2 years in BC before you can take the 'A' course if I'm not mistaken?).

And Thanks Dan for the compliment, I really appreciate it! Your books have been excellent and I'm at the re-reading stage now for one of them.

Unknown

I enjoyed your post too,

Just remember,, there are ALWAYS different ways to do things on the service-end of things. Those "old guys" have alot of knowledge that you can learn from, and dislike being "talked down to" by a young upstart who thinks he knows everything. All the "tickets" don`t mean much on a cold January night no-heat call.
I have seen many new businesses fail because the proprietor had this attitude.
Good Luck in your venture,,, :-)

Dave

BTW- Last time I saw a self-gratification post like this it was from Perry,, are you sure you`re not related?

nicholas bonham-carter

elaboration on pricing methods

i would be interested to hear the rest of the story about your previous employer, and his pricing methods. was it a case of his figuring out "what the traffic would bear", or some other method?

and i am not in this profession, just very interested in keeping my 1885x 55 rad 1-pipe system in good shape; and with the many projects i have done--sometimes with my steam pro--sometimes alone, i feel a kinship with all the dedicated steam men here! i could never have done as much as i have without the WALL!! thank you all, and dan.--nbc


'

SpeyFitter

?

Myself leaving my previous employer had nothing to do with his pricing methods, it was the work. The work he chose was commercial work and new construction condos/townhouses. This work is dependant on developers and new consruction, and is also very repetitive and not very specialized. Good for apprentices to develop skills on, and foreman to learn to manage sites, but when things slow down, what background or experience would I have to fall back on to keep me working? That is why I decided I needed to specialize, and hydronics is what I have chosen.

Also - my posts aren't intended as self gratification. I'm more interested in finding out who the various people are on here, their experiences, and also how you all got to where you are? How did you become competant service or installation technicians? Where did you learn everything you did about heating? It seems like the only way is to go to every seminar, read every book you can, and attend every conference you can, now a days anyways. That is the just of it. The education is there, but you really have to look for it, and it seems like the area I live in it's relatively limited? I just took a 3 day seminiar put on by Ecco heating that was all about Geothermal. It was pretty interesting but a little too much too fast and there were some details that could have been developed a bit more. But I did learn a hell of a lot more than I did before I went. But it was also, because it was Ecco, very forced air based i.e. water to air. It was also quite centered around the geocomfort units they sell. So there was some propaganda attached to it, which is understandable I guess.

Leo G_103

Scott

I run a much smaller company in Greater Vancouver. I know your boss and his company, and you have a great chance to go far with them. BUT (there always seems to be one of these eh?), if you want to get to know the complete picture with hydronics, I see only 2 paths for you.

Either jump right into the controls, take night school courses, manufactures training, get Carol's books, hands on and make your fair share of mistakes.

Or you find a small company, preferably where the owner still does field work, most probably take a cut in pay and benies, sometimes only work 15-25 hours a week, be willing to work weekends when things get busy, expect to use your own vehicle to get material now and then, no company vehicle for yourself, do some filing, etc. But have someone who actually has the time and ability to teach you the intricatisies (sp?) of controls and wiring and proper servicing techniques.

It is very rare in our field, in our area, for the bigger companies to have time for continous training and upgrading of their employees sad to say.

Good luck to you,

Leo G

Leo G_103

Don't mind Dave,

he just has to poke people, his way of letting you know he likes you.

~

Leo G

Bob Bona_4

I've been lucky.

When I was 5 years old, I barely survived spinal meningitis. After coming out of a 2 week coma, it was discovered that I had lost all the hearing in my right ear and 60% in my left. Pretty much deaf. Speech and lip reading therapy through my childhood years along with an ever evolving parade of hearing aids for my "good" ear was survival for me.

What that did for me was to force me to watch other people and things and read more than talk. Listening was secondary, anxiety-ridden. I gravitated to mechanical and hands-on activities because it was peaceful for me. My family was the self sufficient type, we had beef and hay farms, we built houses down to drilling our own wells and forming up foundations, everything. Sub contracting was unheard of. I was driving trucks by the time I was 11, and working side by side with my dad and uncles when I wasn't in school loving and learning every minute of it. I had the best of both worlds- my dad was a mechanical engineer that taught me protocols, and my uncles applied those protocols to real world projects. Volunteerism and church were also a part of my life.

All those experiences taught me to be open minded, curious, humble, passionate about the job at hand, and dedicated. I think back and I think those values that were instilled in me are what matters the most in my trade and business. P+L statements, A/R accounting, and statistics bore me to tears

A quick synopsis: After high school, I went into production furniture manufacturing, working my way up from running a sander to running the shop. An opportunity came up to run a Honda motorcycle service dept/dealership and I took it. Those were good times! But, in late '80s, the dollar/yen was in tough shape and the bike future looked pretty bleak, so I jumped ship and apprenticed at an oil company. Again, good times..daily service calls, boiler and air conditioning installations, oil tank removals, etc. Worked my way up from apprentice to journeyman, did night school after work for years, 6 years of registered time in the field..the final level was contractor grade, and then I had reached the glass ceiling, and went out on my own. I was now free to embrace or reject any products that I wanted to, to provide my clients with the best stuff for their money. And here I am, 12 years or so later, still looking for the best stuff, and trying to avoid getting blown up in the HVAC minefields.

My uncles have passed away, my dad is in his 80's now (he has recently taken the title of "facilities manager" at our church). The farm is on the market, inactive, with all the trucks and tractors I drove all those years ago gathering dust in the barns. I still drive by it from time to time to renew inspiration and to remember what it was like to be a kid

So, Scott, I'll end with two adages in my head right now. "You can't hear when yer talking", and "People don't care how much you know, they just want to know you care". Good Luck to you!

Paul Pollets

Vancouver connection

I first got involved with Viessmann through the Langley office when it was in Surrey. The local rep (Berndt Giese) serviced the Seattle market and was very passionate about the technology. Berndt had been a German boiler fitter for years and knew piping(and burner) strategies like no other. He taught me ways of doing hydronic systems and advanced piping and control strategies that took me up a few notches. Berndt is retired now, but does special projects for Viessmann and is usually in the office on Thursdays. His son Tilo, is now the manager of Viessmann, Langley. If you haven't taken some of their seminars, it's really worth the time.

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Glen Aspen_2

changes at Langley

The Giese family is now retired from Viessmann - Langley office. Changing of the guard I guess. Berndt taught me many things too - and is now probably sitting on his deck over looking the Juan de Fuca straight.

Paul Pollets

Not surprised

who's the new manager?

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Glen Aspen_2

not sure

but Sheen and Matt are still there. I am out of the commissioning/service end of things now so have quickly lost touch with many old friends.

Dave Yates (GrandPAH)_2

Judging by my e-mails - not who I thought I was!

I was a wet head. But I've been forced to become something I'm not - the director of Harry Potter movies! I'm being inundated with pleas from teenagers from around the world looking for a part in the next movie! As if that's not weird enough, some now are giving me the devil for allowing the movie to stray from the book's story-line.