Need advice for updating heating system

David Hohengasser

I live in South Deerfield and have a rental unit in Greeenfield. I would be happy to show you what I did with my steam system with the help of everyone one the Wall. It is efficient and quiet. I can also share a personal story of a co-worker who made the switch to hot water and regrets it. You can reach me at 413-773-8200, ext 20 during the day or 413-834-9766 in the evening. Listen to these people and keep the steam.

TraderH

Updating heating system

I recently purchased a 140yo Brick home in Northampton, MA with a hybrid steam / hot water oil fired burner and cast iron boiler (estimated at 50 years old). The system seems to be working ok but have been advise that boiler is nearing end of lifespan. House has mix of cast iron steam radiators, some very old and some newer (about 70% of house) with another section (30%)having cast iron hot water baseboard. We are in the process of doing extensive interior renovation to various ceilings, walls and floors (not everywhere) and are going to install a HVAC system for cooling. We are interested in updating the heating system at this point since we are doing so many renovations. Heating contractors have advised switching to a natural gas high efficiency boiler and removing the old cast iron boiler and oil fired burner. We were going to retain the cast iron hot water baseboard and modify the cast iron radiators on the 1st floor and convert them to hot water. Considering doing the same on the second floor versus using the ducting from the HVAC to heat the second floor (mostly bedrooms)and removing radiators from the second floor. Some of the second floor radiators could be used to replace the several very old cast iron ones on the 1st floor). Also in the mix of possibilities is scraping some of the cast iron radiators and purchasing and installing low profile radiator panels. We are changing old windows to double glazed newer units and adding extra insulation to the attic to high R. Conversion to hot water aparently will allow us to move supply and return piping into the walls and would allow us to remove some unsightly exposed pipes traveling thru living space for radiators on second floor. Would also allow us to remove maze of piping in the basement which is laden with wrapped asbestos. I realize it is very costly to remove old asbestos piping.

I read a recent thread "Heating Dilemma" from 6/24 on this site which had similar issues to resolve and got the definite sense that the advise was to retain the old system.

So I'm seeking advice if what we are planning is reasonable or perhaps we should retain the hybrid system and the old piping and simply update the burner/boiler with a natural gas system. Can a natural gas boiler be configured to run a hybrid steam / hot water system? Also, if we do make the conversion to hot water system throughout 1st floor and retain the cast iron baseboard where already installed (parts of 1st and 2nd floors)does heating the remaining second floor with hot air thorough HVAC ducting makes sense. Any thoughts on newer wall panels versus retaining cast iron radiators?

Cost of the project is not our main concern (within limits). We really want a system that is updated, attractive in the interior and effective, ie. comfortable.

Thank you.

Steamhead (in transit)

Unless you like living dangerously

don't try to convert the steam system to hot-water. Hot-water runs at over ten times the pressure of steam, which will do a great job of leaking and damaging the house if there are any weak points.

Also, the existing radiation may be incompatible with hot-water, or may be too small to heat the building with hot-water.

This part is especially scary:

"aparently will allow us to move supply and return piping into the walls"

If they're talking about moving them into outside walls, they may freeze and burst in an extended power or fuel failure. That wouldn't be pretty.

Any steam boiler can also run a hot-water loop if a heat exchanger is used. If the hot-water loop is not too much higher than the boiler and is small enough, you can run the loop directly from the boiler. Here's a pic of one we did this way.

Also, note that this is a gas-fired boiler. It uses a powered burner that runs much like an oil burner, and there is water almost completely surrounding the flame. This makes it noticeably more efficient than the usual atmospheric gas boiler. It can also be switched to oil firing if the cost per BTU of oil goes below that of gas (you did compare this, didn't you?)- you'd still need a tank though.


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Larry C_13

Use \"Find a Pro\" under the Resources bar at the top of the page.

Use "Find a Pro" under the Resources bar at the top of the page. Type in your zip code and see who comes up. A professional heating contractor can save you alot of money by matching the heating system to the system load. Even if you do not choose to go that route, PLEASE make sure the contractor follows the FACTORY INSTALLATION INSTRUCTIONS!!!!
Your wallet will thank you, when it is time to pay the fuel bills.

To size the heating system correctly, you or your heating contractor should perform the "manual J" heat loss calculations to determine how many BTU's are required to heat your structure in the dead of winter. I ASSume that the same information would be used to calculate what size AC system to install.

Oversizing equipment will lead to excessive short cycling which leads to premature system wear and excessive fuel consumption.

Disclosure: I am not Heating or Air Conditioning contractor nor do I work in the HVAC business. I am a home owner who has read too many stories about hacked heating systems and is currently in the process of upgrading my own system.

Good Luck.

Larry C

Matthew Grallert

Sounds like fun. I,ve done both, anf I prefer water for the easy of room to room control. Don't get me wrong I like steam when it's running/set up properly. I have converted steam rad to watre and have had great success. I have never used the origonal steam piping during a conversion. There are a few of these conversion with my name on them in the Hamp area and in the hill towns. all smiles so far. Make extra sure the crew doing the work know what they are doing and not making it up as they go along
Good luck
Peace
Matthew

Charlie from wmass

Steam that works is some of the most comfortable heat you can get. Lots of ifs with an old system that has been fiddled with. A good walk through by a heating pro who is familiar with steam would be the best way to answer what would be best for you home. you can email me direct if you would like to discuss your system in detail.