burying wet return

charlie_22

I plan on burying two sections of my wet return and insatlling ball valves with flushing ports should I use copper? If so how do I protect it from the concrete? And what are some other options for this application thanks Charlie Norgalis

Big Ed_4

Wet Returns

Use iron pipe for the wet return. I would the last pipe lasted 70 years.. What you need to worry about is the acidity of the soil. You can fill around the pipe in the trench with lime stone to neutralize the soil. Rap the pipe at slab level with pipe insulation or even a rag just incase of pipe expantion and friction wear ..

Unknown

Typically I use copper

below the water-line,, especially anything buried.
It just sets my mind at ease knowing if there`s ever a problem.
Just wrap some foam-pipe insulation at the ends where you protrude through the concrete as it will react negatively with any alloy touching it.
The valves/drains for flushing are a GREAT IDEA!

This sounds like a familiar post/name! ;-)

Dave

charlie_22

Dave

We spoke two weeks ago about raising and dripping my main I have one more runout and the main vents to do and I will be starting on the return piping.I would like to post some pics of my work but I am much more interested in steam system work than computers and digital cameras but I will see if I can get someone to help me post pics.Thank You for your time and advice Charlie

charlie_22

Big Ed limestone

Ed: Where do you get the limestone plumbing supply or mason supply?

Unknown

Don't bother with limestone

Just insulate the whole pipe before you bury it . It'll save you some dinero in the long run too . You won't be heating the slab up with return water . I'd cover the pipe with sand and cap it with a few inches of cement mix .

charlie_22

makes sense

that makes sense that foam insulation never decomposes thanks for the advice

Big Ed_4

But

.. And there is alway a but. In old homes they use to have dirt floors and burnt coal. All that coal ash brought up the acidity of the dirt. Covering the pipe with insulation is good to prevent heat loss. But if below the slab is wet the water will seep in and corrode the pipe. Then use lime stone or marble chip to netrualize arond the pipe. All depends on the job. How long did the old one last. Does the trench look dry. Food for thought on your job..

Unknown

I agree Ed,

many basements (including mine) used cinders for fill.
When the railways were "King", they had to get rid of the stuff somewhere, it was a popular under concrete fill.
I would think copper is the best defense to anything underground,, except where it protrudes.

Dave

Big Ed_4

Copper can be used

Just install dielectric unions where the copper connects to the iron.

Unknown

Well,,,,,

as you know Ed,, electrolysis is a whole other topic. :-).

Dave

Big Ed_4

All due respect to all ..

Hope you were not defended , I just wanted to help , so I just added the unions . Goes for everyone.. That's how I learn too .. Heck after 35 year I have enough experience to know , that I don't know it all ..

40 years if you figure as a kid helping my Dad and Grand Dad , I was offered a full time job at 18 in this industry. I took if figuring I will will do it temporary .Thank God inmagine if I wanted to make a career out of this !!! LoL

Unknown

Ed, Ed, Ed,,,,

I most certainly respect your experience,, you seem like a very good tradesman, and what I said was meant in the highest esteem!
Let`s try not to be so touchy with each-other in the future OK? :-)

Dave

Big Ed_4

Very Good

I am fine , heck after dealing with the public all these years I am like rubber ... LoL

charlie_22

Big Ed Limestone

Ed: The house was built in 1936 I bought it from the original owner she said it always had oil heat and it has a concrete floor I would say the soil is damp so I will definatly use the crushed limestone. Were is the best place to get it? thanks for all your advice

Unknown

Ash and cinders can be a problem. About ten years ago we installed a copper pipe in a trench from a well to a house and unknown to us the trench crossed an old pit used to dispose of ash/clinkers. The pipe rotted out in less than 3 years! Here's a good link on the subject:

http://www.copper.org/applications/plumbing/techcorner/prevent_corrosion_cu_tube_buried.html

We wrapped the replacement pipe in vinyl electrician's tape and used a neutral backfill. We haven't had a problem with the pipe since then. Limestone sand is available in some places as is crushed marble. I've seen marble chips at Home Depot.

On the link - Take a look at how they came through the concrete. I'm going to try that next time I have a similar installation.

- Rod

charlie_22

info

Thanks alot for the advice and the link

bob young

buried vs. getting buried

USE " K " Copper & a pipe sleeve. ash & cinders are murderous on pipe. when you bury pipe its always a gamble. & you can take that to the bank.protect from moisture outside------inside is O.K. lol

MikeyB

Returns

When I was working in the trade, we always replaced the old underground returns w/type L copper, and insulated it, Sometimes you could abandon the underground return & run a new return on top of the floor/slab if conditions permitted. If you want extra insurance use type K tubing, a bit more of an expense but heavier tubing.. And always sleeve you tubing/pipe as it passes through a slab or foundation,,, that was always common & good practice. And the extra valves are always a good choice for cleaning