Replacing an Oil-fired Hot Water Boiler

jeanRR

Hi,

The bidder who erroneously said (several times), that it's ok to use an aluminum chimney liner with an oil boiler, I'm afraid is out. It is truly hard to understand how someone in the business so long could slip up so badly. The other bidder (who BTW I am told is one of the two best boiler men in MA) indicates that you need 100,000 btu's to produce sufficient hot water in a 40-gal indirect tank (like I currently have). He maintains that the Burnham MPO 84 cannot supply the necessary heat, while an MPO 115 can. Any comments would be much appreciated. Thank you so much for your help.

jeanRR

Replacing an oil-fired hot water boiler

What is the proper or most efficient way to install a replacement oil boiler? (1) Replace everything from ceiling to floor? (2) Replace only the boiler plus any broken or unusable parts -- leaving the copper piping mainly intact? (3) Some other way? Also, can you use an aluminized chimney liner with an 87% high-efficiency oil boiler such as the Burnham MPO or the PurePro Trio? I may or may not be relocating in a few years, but either way, I would like the new boiler installation to be of high quality.

Looking forward to your helpful advice.

Jean

Al Letellier_9

replacement boiler

it depends on the condition of the boiler and its working parts. You should use stailess steel only for a oil boiler vent. Oil byproducts will rot out an aluminum liner in no time flat, and that spells trouble. Consult with a good heat guy before you jump and get a couple of opinions before you leap. You can post what you learn here and the "experts" will help you out.

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billtwocase

not done yet?

Jean, they still have you up in the air with that install?

jeanRR

Still...

Hi,

Yep, still up in the air. I've pretty much settled on the Burnham MPO to replace my now badly leaking oil boiler. One hvac guy gave me a low bid for the MPO-84, which he says is all I need. He gave me a computer readout of a heat loss analysis he performed. Basically, he roughed out the size of all the rooms by counting paces, looked at ceilings, etc. and ran a program from Slant Fin to come up with a figure for "needed boiler output." He insists I can reline my chimney with aluminum or aluminized steel. The other guy is a boiler man, his bid is rather reasonable I believe, and he measured the basement and possibly looked at other things to determine that I need the MPO-115. These guys both have great references. The boiler man is also a Burnham man, so to speak. The hvac guy would keep all usable components and piping as is. The boiler man would replace all from ceiling to floor, and also thinks I should replace my still working Amtrol water heater, which is 7 years past warranty and going strong. I would really like to get back to my old life where boilers just sit and work and you can forget about them for a long, long time...

Thanks for remembering me. Any further advice?

Jean

billtwocase

boiler replacement

Although the opinions differed here on a earlier post, I would use up all the life that the Amtrol will give. I would say stainless liner, and replace floor to ceiling. JMO. Best of luck

Unknown

Actually,

as I`m not a Burnham man(so to speak), after reviewing their website I see little difference in actual construction between the 84 & 115 model except in the burner & firing rate.
I would tend to lean towards the smaller model,, but the "aluminized" liner is a no-no for oil!
Just my $0.02 cents. ;-)

Dave

Steamhead (in transit)

Was measuring the basement

the only difference between the two proposals?

Is the basement finished? If not, and it probably won't be, go with the smaller boiler. Even if you do finish the basement later, there's enough safety factor in heat-loss calculators that you should be OK.

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jeanRR

The voice of reason

Hi,

Thanks for putting it so simply and sensibly. I guess the only question left is what size boiler. Someone at Burnham suggested I ask the boiler man for a heat loss analysis. Maybe he will at least give me the figure he is working from, as you or someone else on this web site suggested. Are these standard questions that people usually don't ask?

Jean

jeanRR

\"Size\"

Dave,

Yes, I guess by size they mean the firing rate, rather than the physical dimensions. Intuition tells me to go with the smaller 'size.' Thanks for the good advice -- and cheap ;^) to boot.

Jean

jeanRR

Smaller is probably better, but the boiler man doesn't think so.

Hi,

Probably won't be refinishing it, but what a great point. I had a finished studio apartment torn down last summer after heavy flooding. The whole basement has now been waterproofed (holding my breath), so we finally seem to have a dry place to store things after 30-some years of a damp, musty, smelly basement. If anything, I would do only very limited construction at this point; but who ever knows for sure what the future will bring.

Jean

jeanRR

Just wondering

Do heating contractors generally do a heat loss calculation before installing a boiler? I mean, do they have to in order to scope out the job that is in front of them? If they do, it seems like they could share the info with their customer without too much trouble to themselves...?

Jean

Unknown

Most better ones do

(or at least should), as over the years upgrades such as insulation, windows, and as Steamhead pointed-out, different basement usage/renovations all have an effect on the present BTU requirements of your home.
As also pointed-out in your other posting, this can be a time-consuming calculation, so its not unusual to make a charge for it.
Usually(in my area), it is credited-back if awarded the job, but to give this BTU calculation free many homeowners will just peddle the # to other competitors who usually give a better price as they didn`t have to do any of the math.

Dave

billtwocase_10

BTU

Jeanne, an average 40 gallon indirect only needs roughly 20,000 BTU's. I don't know the size of your home, but sounds like the boiler is getting oversized? I may stand corrected, but that is for you Amtrol? peace

jeanRR

Incredible

Yes, it's an Amtrol...it's way past warranty. The house is 1700 sq ft, not including the basement, which is 1056 sq ft.

Dave Mayer -3 Sons Heating

Good Evening....you definitely have done your homework, coming to this forum was a great move. You will, and I am sure, have learned alot. I own a company in Mass and do heatlosses for my boiler replacements. I, too, use the Slant Fin program but I use an actual measuring device. I have had more than one customer use my calcs for another contractor. So, now I either charge and rebate or figure the new boiler to my heatloss and provide my heatloss to the customer upon deposit. The MPO is a good choice.
Dave

jeanRR

Really glad you approve of the MPO...it helps to hear it.

Now the question is which MPO model to choose, the 84 or the 115. My bidder recommends the 115. He figured out my home's heat loss by measuring the basement and looking at how the foundation is built. He feels I need the MPO 115 to accommodate my indirect hot water tank, which he maintains requires 100,000 btu's! (I think he said he got that figure from Burnham. He is listed as a top performer on Burnham's contractor referral list on their website.) My bidder also suggests that I switch out my aging Amtrol water tank for an Alliance SL-35, -- could that possibly explain the need for 100,000 btu's. All ideas or comments are welcome!

Are you the same Dave as the one above?

M grallert

I find it hard to believe that a home of your size would need more that 80k. You can do your own heatloss. You'll be suprised at the number. With a priority control you will never have a domestic hot water issue. I bet you house needs less than 80k.
Peace
Matthew

chapchap70_2

How much hot water?

I am guessing that the 100,000 BTUs the indirect calls for is for continuous use. That would mean using more hot water than you have in your indirect for things like baths, hot tubs, simultaneous dishwasher and hot water washing machine use, etc. Do you have teenage daughters?

If you use a low flow rate shower head, use one hot water appliance at a time, and don't mind if the house gets a little cooler because your boiler can't supply both your heat and hot water needs on the coldest day of the year, you probably won't need the extra BTU's.

Charlie from wmass

Jean I know this is taking you a long time as it is a big decision but remember it is worth it if you simply weeded out that aluminum liner. I forget what region of Mass are you in ? I am in Berkshire County.