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high efficiency boiler - which is better

CMadatMe
CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
If we are talking about the new Vitodens 100 boiler that was released July 1 then hands down that is the best buy. Here's why?

1. 316 Titanium Stainless Heat Exchanger. You can't change the periodic table. Strongest Heat Exch on the market today.

2. Limited Lifetime Warranty, 10 yrs full, pro-rated and you will never pay more than 50% of it's value after the 15th year. No other manufacture can match that.

3. No primary secondary piping needed or additional pump to get through the boiler.

4. Can vent multiple ways.
"The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."

Comments

  • Mina
    Mina Member Posts: 1
    high efficiency boiler - which is better


    We got an estimate for a new gas boiler - a Buderus GB 142/24. We took a little while to make a decision and now some prices have changed and he wants to do a Viessman 100 series boiler instead for the same price (originally he told us this was a better, more expensive option). Is this a reasonable swap? I've heard good things about the guy we are hiring, but I'm afraid that with the Viessman, we'll be wedded to him for any future problems, as it seems like many local heating companies use Buderus, but few use Viessman. Thanks for any answers!
  • EricAune
    EricAune Member Posts: 432
    Both are great

    I think you will find contractors here that will side with one of the boilers over another. Probably an equal amount for each one.
    The truth, as I see it, is that both boilers are very high quality, very well built and both have a great reputation in the industry. I have installed each of these and find myself selecting one over the other based on the overall needs of the system and what the owner is trying to achieve from their system.

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  • KevinCorr
    KevinCorr Member Posts: 106


    I was an Energy Kinetics dealer in the past and have since been installing Laars and small Burnham.
    Recently I have been investigating Buderus and Viessmann to decide if I want to install them.
    I have seen and heard only good about Buderus. Viessmann is considered by the majority to be very good but I have found a few complaints on it.
  • Dick Charland
    Dick Charland Member Posts: 178


    Take a look at Peerless Purefire, www.peerlessboilers.com .
  • Supply House Rick
    Supply House Rick Member Posts: 1,404
    First thing

    1. Peerless is JUNK
    2. Buderus and Viessmann make fine equipment, Viessmann had a recall regarding a potential fire hazard (pretty important, unless you live in a fire proof house)
    3. **** Charland works for Peerless so his opinion doesn't count.
    4. The correct answer is Buderus.
    5. Any questions, please refer to #1
  • nicholas bonham-carter
    nicholas bonham-carter Member Posts: 8,576
    junk, or badly chosen

    i am sure that is a gross over-simplification. i consider "bad choice" equipment to be:

    unsupported by a stocking distributor less than 30 miles away, or with inadequate parts availability.

    only installed by one company, and unfamiliar to any one else.

    i have found peerless tech support to be very good [for steam], and i am sure that they would not manufacture products with known problems, without correcting them.
    other boilers may have other features, but be sure that the installer is knowlegeable.--nbc



  • Jim_64
    Jim_64 Member Posts: 253
    Can't go wrong

    either way,I have a preference, but it's just that.a preference
  • EricAune
    EricAune Member Posts: 432
    "If you don't like change, your going to like irrelevance even less"
  • EricAune
    EricAune Member Posts: 432
    You're right........

    You're right, it has a great warranty. Buderus' warranty is pretty good too.

    The heat exchanger is nice, so is the Buderus.

    Venting is definitely more cumbersome and expensive than the Buderus period.

    The Buderus comes with a great piping set up and engineered saving time and headache, pre piped for dhw too.

    Price is always a factor and in my experience, the Vitodens is higher with few benefits.

    Peace

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  • JackR
    JackR Member Posts: 125
    Viessmann

    Have had nothing but pure horror with Viessmann...........in more ways than one.
  • Tony_56
    Tony_56 Member Posts: 3
    Cast iron

    Dont discount cast iron boilers, Their efficiency may not be as high but the payback on the cost difference you will never see. Right now these European boiler manufacturers are taking Americans for a ride, check out Ebay.UK and see what Europeans pay for the same boiler...1/3 the price. You will hear all kinds of stories about import taxes and UL approvals but if that were true the same thing would apply to mini split a/c from china and South korea...But it don't hmmmm. The South Koreans are really at the top of this game and you will soon see things from there with higher efficiency's and much lower prices. Everyone is concerned about the life span of these units but honestly do you really see yourself burning fossil fuel in 15 years. They have already started the smart grid. You would be better served by getting an inexpensive cast iron boiler and start putting solar panels on the roof for domestic.
  • Kevin__Flynn
    Kevin__Flynn Member Posts: 74
    Whatcha Gonna do Now \"BroandyFooria\"

    Recall Alert
    U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission
    Office of Information and Public Affairs
    Washington, DC 20207



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    July 9, 2009
    Alert #09-752



    Bosch Thermotechnology Recalls Boilers Due to Fire Hazard
    The following product safety recall was voluntarily conducted by the firm in cooperation with the CPSC. Consumers should stop using the product immediately unless otherwise instructed.

    Name of Product: Gas-Fired Wall-Hung Boilers

    Units: About 90

    Importers: Bosch Thermotechnology, of Londonderry, N.H.

    Manufacturer: Nefit B.V. Inc., of the Netherlands

    Hazard: An electrical connector can overheat, posing a fire hazard to consumers.

    Incidents/Injuries: None reported.

    Description: The recalled Buderus GB142 is a gas-fired, wall-hung boiler. The boilers are white and designed to be mounted on walls. The black control drawer in the bottom center of the front of the boiler is marked “Buderus GB 142.” Boilers with a green sticker inside the control drawer are not included. The model numbers included in the recall are 142/24, 142/30, 142/45 and 142/60. Only models with date codes of 7246 through 7256 are included in the recall. The model number and date code are located on a label on the bottom left side of the boiler.

    Sold by: Wholesale distributors to plumbing and heating contractors nationwide from September 2007 through December 2007 for between $5,000 and $7,500.

    Manufactured in: The Netherlands

    Remedy: Consumers should stop using the recalled boilers immediately and contact their certified heating contractors or Bosch Thermotechnology for a free repair.

    Consumer Contact: For additional information, call Bosch Thermotechnology at (800) 283-3787 between 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. ET Monday through Friday or visit the firm’s Web site at www.buderus.net








    Kevin Flynn
  • Gene_5
    Gene_5 Member Posts: 11
    system 2000

    I like the system 2000, installed many and yes I have changed blocks and even welded one, they are easy to install/work on, standard parts except the control which is easy to temporarily bypass and is extremely efficient, it only runs when you need it and then returns any unused heat back into the last zone that called.

    I have seen homes go from 1,000 gal year to 350, I think the Buderus and others are good, I juts do not believe they can return the investment as fast.
  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,538
    No P/S?

    on the Vitodens? How is that possible?
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  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,538
    Wellded?

    You have an ASME cert.?
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  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    How?

    low loss header
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • Robert O'Brien
    Robert O'Brien Member Posts: 3,538
    LLH?

    That's not pumping through the boiler.Same cost if not morethan P/S and still need a system pump
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  • Jean-David Beyer
    Jean-David Beyer Member Posts: 2,666
    You have an ASME cert.?

    I thought to work on boilers, the welder may or may not have needed an ASME certificate, but that the shop where the welding was done surely needed one. I know that the chief engineer (he had a gold seal license with an endorsement for steam locomotives) of a local steam railroad around here explained that to me, because it was the shop, not the welder, that had to certify that the welding was up to code. And here in NJ, if I remember correctly, no repairs could be done to locomotive boilers by welding. You could get a lot of steam heat from one of those boilers. They ran at between 150 psi and 175 psi. These were small boilers compared to what the big railroads used (225 psi and sometimes more).
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    Viessmann Pricing

    I see that you haven't had a change to see the new Viessmann Pricing. ITS THE SAME AS BUDERUS NOW. The new Vitodens 200 blows away everyone. Can vent upto 200' away with simple Z-vent or equiv. Plus nobody has a burner like them. You plug it into lp or nat and it will fire without making any adjustments. Also, the burner monitors incoming gas pressures and adjust accordingly. Will fire at 2"wc on Nat and 4"wc on LP. Price came down 25%-35%. Right in the same ball park and the control blows away anyone.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
  • KevinCorr
    KevinCorr Member Posts: 106


    Gene- Hi. Those EK boilers you worked on were surely installed wrong. Right? 1- Allowed to run too cool and had continued condensing?
    2- Leaky system constantly introducing new water?

    Mine is over 25 years old!
  • EricAune
    EricAune Member Posts: 432


    "the new Vitodens 200 blows away everyone. Can vent upto 200' away with simple Z-vent or equiv."

    MY POINT EXACTLY....Z-VENT, NOT PVC.

    iF IT NEEDS A STAINLESS VENT ITS BECAUSE IT HAS TOO HIGH EXHAUST TEMPS FOR PVC. IF THE TEMPS ARE TOO HIGH THE BOILER IS NOT RECLAIMING THE FLUE GASSES (WHICH IS THE EPITOME OF HIGH EFFICIENCY).

    YOU CAN TRY TO LIVE AND DIE BY THE SWORD....BUT EVENTUALLY THAT IS ALL YOU WILL DO. DIE BY THE VIESSMANN.
    "If you don't like change, your going to like irrelevance even less"
  • CMadatMe
    CMadatMe Member Posts: 3,086
    PVC Venting

    1st off the Vitodens 200 flue gas temp is only 20 degrees higher then return water temp. So if your condensing at 120 degrees flue gas temp is only 100. It's not that you couldn't use it. It is not approved for venting by every pvc manufacturer in the country. Why would I use a pipe that is made to carry **** for venting? I would use a pipe that was made for it. Third, why would I purch any gas boiler today that was not 95% afue when there is a $1,500 federal tax credit and atleast in my area $1,000.00 rebated from the utility company. I'm getting a more efficient, better boiler for less the cost of your EK.
    "The bitter taste of a poor installation remains much longer than the sweet taste of the lowest price."
This discussion has been closed.