Steam Boilers, when do you go to the \"next size up\"?

clammy

Gary i think i would down size if i saw that alot insulation and window improvements where made and that the home did not have alot of infiltration also if all the steam mains where well insulated all that would leave me to downsize as long it fell some where between the heat lose and the conneceted colletive EDR ,i don't think i myself would add anything for a indiret being that i would probably put it on proirity so as not to try have have to cyle either the pump or the boiler so that i would not damage the pumps impeller with to high a temperture ,plus how long is the boiler really going to running to satisfye the indiret .Myself i really don't like the idea of using indirets off a steam boiler unless the inderect has access to it's water side so that it could be cleaned of all the mud and rude with inhabiet most steam systems and of course that does lead to more maintance which most HO truely don't believe in nor enjoy paying to say the least peace and good luck clammy

GW

bigger and better

hello, is there a rule of thumb when to go to the next size up? I just measured 296 edr. the brand I use has 281 and then 375. I'm sure both would work, but is there a rule of thumb where factors come into play?

Actually, the HO may want an indirect installed... maybe bigger is better.

Anyway, if there wasn't an indirect, please share your thoughts on when you dimply drop down instead of rounding up, thanks, gary

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

scrook_3

oil or gas?

"Gary i think i would down size if i saw that alot insulation and window improvements where made and that the home did not have alot of infiltration also if all the steam mains where well insulated all that would leave me to downsize as long it fell some where between the heat lose and the connected collective EDR"

But ALL that matters for steam is connected EDR, Mains losses & Pick-up. Structure loss matters not (unless it exceeds EDR -- highly unlikely), then the issue becomes radiation, not boiler anyway.

281 SF to 375 SF is a big jump, 33% increase, unless it's oil fired then you might down-fire a bit, 10-20% perhaps depending on boiler's firing range.

scrook_3

"Gary i think i would down size if i saw that alot insulation and window improvements where made and that the home did not have alot of infiltration also if all the steam mains where well insulated all that would leave me to downsize as long it fell some where between the heat lose and the connected collective EDR"

But ALL that matters for steam is connected EDR, Mains losses & Pick-up. Structure loss matters not (unless it exceeds EDR -- highly unlikely), then the issue becomes radiation, not boiler anyway.

281 SF to 375 SF is a big jump, 33% increase, unless it's oil fired then you might down-fire a bit, 10-20% perhaps depending on boiler's firing range. How long/extensive & well insulated are the mains?

bob young

FIELDERS CHOICE

WEIL-MCLAIN MAKES THOSE IN-BETWEEN SIZES THAT CAN BE HELPFUL IN A PINCH. ALTHOUGH IT IS NOT A FAVORITE OF MINE. TELL CUSTOMER THE SITUATION, GIVE YOUR PROFESSIONAL OPINION & LET THEM MAKE THE CALL. IF YOU GO BIGGER YOU CANNOT LOSE [ ONLY HIGHER BILLS FOR CLIENT MAYBE. ] HOW CLOSELY DID YOU MEASURE & EXAMINE RADIATION ? MAYBE YOU SHOULD REVIEW FOR MORE EXACT BTU LOAD.

gerry gill

I'm more apt

to round up on one pipe steam, and round down on two pipe vapor..just been my experiance.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Chips

If it’s an oil fired system, I would strongly suggest looking at the Burnham MegAsteamer.
The MST 288 and the 396 are the same size (3 sections) boilers with different firing rates, so you have the water capacity to run the system including the tankless by fine tuning the burner. We just installed a 396 and a 629 both with tankless heaters and we couldn’t be happier.
Chips

Steamhead (in transit)

Gary, are you using

the Utica PEG/Columbia CEG boiler? If so, I'd go with the bigger one and down-fire it slightly- but not so far as to produce poor combustion. Also do an oversized drop header. These things appear to have smaller than usual steam chests, and downfiring them makes the water level more steady.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

GW

ok

yes, Utica is what I've been using for gas, peerless for oil. Burnham sounds good (mega steam); I just don't do any regular business with any Burnham vendors.

The pipes are mostly insulated.

Is there a problem downfiring the nat gas? How much would you wind it down?

Thanks, gary

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Mitch_6

281 is less than 296 so you go to the next one up to fill all the radiation with steam. I doubt your calculations are taking pipe and pickup into account.

I would like to see how a conventional gas fired package boiler can be down fired. I have seen logs removed but it's never been sanctioned by the manufacturer. Gas pressure is typically 3.5" for natural on the manifold and other than using a combustion analizer to set it, if you decrease fuel pressure you change the quality of the flame.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

John@Reliable_21

Gary,

You should know that!
Screwing with gas valves & regulators likely wont get you very far.
I would keep looking for a boiler of the closest size to the steam load.

Dave

GW

yes

there was a comment on down firing so I asked about it. That's my MO, just because i ask a question doesn't mean I'm going to take the advice



To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

John@Reliable_21

Sorry Gary,

I meant no offense.
I just did`nt want to see you be misled.

Dave

GW

cool

I wasn't offended in any way. How about that Mike ac guy? Every spring I need my AC fix; i forget all that good stuff.

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

TK03

I'd use the 281. The rads do not have to heat all the way across unless it get colder than design. The 33% pick up factor manufactuers figure in is normally more than required. As long as the mains are insulated and piping is not in a crawl space I would go for it. the difference is only 3600 btu.s which is about 3 sections. As we know the radiators don't heast all the way across anyway unless it is very cold.

GW

Thanks for the replies. GW

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"