Lochinvar KnightWB-050 ?

Paul Rohrs_4

The service life of a modcon has always been one that there is no conclusive evidence on, as of yet. I believe I will easily see a 20 yr lifespan on the boilers I install. To emphasize, boilers I install. While not casting stones or pointing fingers, the system is only as good as the installer, so installing the boiler the way it was intended is not just a little key dangling from a hydronic keyring of components, it is a Big Key. Servicing them properly and routinely will also factor into that lifespan.

Factory training was very good. I am a bit of a controls junkie and I don't think I had enough "hands-on" time while at the factory. Having said that, Lochinvar has done a VERY GOOD JOB putting together webinars for the Knight on multiple subjects and Charles Phillips does an exceptional job.

The Knight 285 comes with a Grundfos UP26-64, but the 210 on down comes with the Grundfos 15-58FC 3-speed.

Good luck on your selection.

Regards,

PR

SpeyFitter

Opinions?

I mentioned earlier in the "Your Personal Heating System" thread I started that I was set on the idea of using a Vitodens 100 to heat my (future I will be buying off my mom's) house for radiant floors and an indirect. And then I have just as of late gotten wind of Lochinvar a bit more, mainly because I'm installing 2 Knight XL 399's at work right now in a commercial application obviously, and then I never knew that they manufactureed such a small Condensing Boiler, I always thought the Triangle Tube 15-60 model was the smallest.

Anyways, I understand this is a relatively new model, but for those of you who maybe install the Knights on a more regular basis, as well as maybe anyone who has seen this model up close and worked on it/with it? It's not so much a price issue between what this model will cost and what I now the Vitodens 100 model I have in mind costs. It's more related to reliability and quality. I don't have much in the way of doubts about the Viessmann model in question, but I do have some doubts that maybe you can dispell or remove about Lochinvar due to my limited expierience working with the product. But a boiler like this with it's modulation range and firing rate (input from 10,000 to 50,000) is much more suited to the size of house and heat loss than the Viessmann Vitodens 100 29-80, as far as modulation range goes.

Any input is much appreciated, Thanks.

Paul Rohrs_7

Doubts?

Scott, what doubts are you having about the Knight?

I have had extremely few,minor, and correctable issues with the Knight. What btu/h load are you running at design conditions? The low temp requirements and DHW are in keeping with most modcons standard features. The knight has a ramp delay feature that IMHO, is under-used. It must be set up with a laptop, but well worth the time/effort for better net results, application and load dependant of course. Do a little research at their knightheatingboiler.com website via their available literature and make your own judgements.

Quality control is excellent, as is tech support. I have been installing the Knight since they came out of production in Sept of 05. Regular maintenance is a snap and is mandantory.

Paul

SpeyFitter

Reliability

I quite heavily research pretty much every major purchase, my main requirement being reliability, quality, and durability. My doubts arise just by the little I have heard about Lochinvar locally as far as reputation goes in this regard. I know the Viessmann's have a good name and reputation, as well as they have a local training center (I live in a suburb of Vancouver BC, there training/manufactuering facility is located in Langley BC, also another suburb) so there is much reassurance there. As a hydronic radiant designer/Plumber/Gasfitter (who installs fair number of boilers per year) while I haven't done an actual heat loss on my mom's house (which I plan to buy), but off of the top of my head I know what the heat loss would be and I know this Boiler would fit the application well seeing as how there is also only one bathroom as well with a 30-40 gallon indirect tank.

So will these boilers in your opinion, stand the test of time? Will you get 20 years out of them? 30 years? Do they have any weak points that you know of?

I only plan to use quality components, air seperator, dirt seperator, Wilo Pumps, Wirsbo He-Pex, Polypropolene Fusion Plastic Pipe, etc.

Big Will

Great

I have been using them for a while now and have that same model in my home. They are very reliable. Although I would never argue that yearly maintenance is a must they tend to stay very clean inside. And Paul is right on about customer service I have never worked with a company that is so ready and willing to work with you on a problem. They even have people on call for tech help over the phone. I think the only company that comes close is Trane and that even depends on the distributor. It is very close to the munchkin but with the service issues I have seen with the munchkin I would never buy one. It comes with the primary pump and flanges also which is nice.

SpeyFitter

Thanks


So did you guys manage to take any of their factory training? Is it worth it?

What type of circulator do they come with?

SpeyFitter

Thanks again

Paul,

You are right, Mod/Con's have been out about 20 years now if I'm not mistaken so there is some question whether they will last but if all goes well...

The reason I like Lochinvar (at least so far) is they speak to you in plain english on their website. The way they present their information to you is the way I like to be sold to if that makes sense, very similarly to the way Amsoil sells synthetic oil which I also buy religiously for anything I can use it for.

I don't think piping and setting things up right will be too much of a problem for myself considering the resources Lochinvar makes available, on top of my personal expierience in the field. I plan on going "overkill" with a few things, just for my own curiousity since I don't get to do that in the field i.e. all bronze/brass pumps/parts/components, a dirt seperator, air seperator, plastic piping (with O2 barrier), potable expansion tank, etc. The reason I want to do this is just to see how it performs as I have yet to see a system like this in the field, and I'd be interested in seeing how clean the water is.

hot_rod

great product and company

I have one of the early 80K Knights at my home. I've opened it twice now for cleaning and found it to be in excellent condition. No coffee grounds I'm on LP.

I like the way the intake air couples directly to the blower. Very little chance of room air getting into the combustion. I tested that well, as mine sits next to the dryer and gets a layer of dust on the case.

I have installed 10 or so in my area, all but the largest and smallest. They all are running as expected.

I really like the control, one of the most feature laden in the business.

You may never need factory support, but it is as good as it gets.

Great factory if you get the chance to visit by all means do so.

hr

Marc_23

Cleaning

Question for you, how do clean the second pass on the (spelling) Giononii exchanger, Nobody can answer that question. We have installed the Knights in the XL sizes, due to Viessmanns lack of large sizes in the Vitodens and so far they have been working fine. The long term service really concerns me with the G exchanger.

Marc

Big Will

GO to thte factory

That is a big part of why I use the product. The training on the boiler itself was great I learned a lot. However the thing I really walked away with is a respect for the company. The employees are happy and proud of the product the production facility is clean organized and safe. They have some amazing R+D facilities also. Its the same reason I push Trane on the air side.

Kal Row

yeah!!!

when i was in Tennessee on a hot day on the beautiful and air-conditioned factory floor i asked them about to cost of keeping the factory air-conditioned and they simply said - "happy employees build happy boilers and happy boilers build happy customers”

you will be happy with the knight it’s a lot more bang for the buck than the vie$$mann

Undonaassesee

Knight

I love the Knight, speaking of plain english-thats what you get when reading the display not some numeric code. Factory support is professional. Plus they keep coming out with new innovative products (Shield mod con water heater)

Undonaassesee

Knight

I love the Knight, speaking of plain english-thats what you get when reading the display not some numeric code. Factory support is professional. Plus they keep coming out with new innovative products (Shield mod con water heater)