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Question for ME

Justin Topel
Justin Topel Member Posts: 65
Mark, I just read your article in Contractor magazine on system efficiency. Great article by the way! I have always wondered about this topic when looking at installed systems. I know that you can find burning efficiency with a flue-gas analyzer, but this only covers the fuel. Even if you were able to reach perfect combustion, Stoichiometric Mix, crud on the heat exchanger could prevent proper system efficiency which would be the ultimate goal. It may be possible to have a system with lower fuel efficiency, yet better heat transfer, which could outperform a system with better burn efficiency and poor heat transfer. Correct me if I am wrong on this. The question I am after is in regards to the gas meter, flow meter, and temperature sensors that you used to do the logging on your system. What brand, type, place to buy, etc? I would like to have a portable briefcase that I can travel to larger jobs with and give them an accurate measurement of efficiency. Then I could do this same set-up on newer equipment that I have installed and give them a possible payback period. Of course stressing the yearly maintenance and system checking would be included in the proposal suggestions. I am always striving to find ways in which I can save the customers money by promoting high quality. I know it is an accepted notion to update their equipment, yet some folks don't always have the money on hand to do that. They could spend a lot less at this point and "tweak" their system to save right now (i.e. reset controls). My past customers, from a different line of work, know how much more I care about them then I do the money or the work. They trust me when I suggest something to fix their problem that I am not trying to just make a buck. From that time forward they never question my motives again. They know that I have their best interests in mind when I propose something. It works well for me. Any help that you can give me to help my customers would greatly be appreciated. Thanks again for the great article.

Mister T

Comments

  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    It won't fit in your brief case....

    Thanks for the kudos. I enjoy writing the articles, but not sure how much longer I will be able to do it once my radiant window ship comes in.

    Flue gas sampling will indicate a clogged heat exchanger due to excessive flue gas temperatures. Regardless, if its a mod con, it NEEDS To be serviced annually per the manufacturers instructions.

    The gas meter is an American gas meter with a pulse output contact for each cubic foot of gas it meters. The flow meter is an in line hydronic flow meter, made by Blue-White Industries. The temperature sensors are the sensors that are onboard on the boiler. A person could purchase a nice Fluke Differential Temperature meter, and you could cut the flow meter in, but it would probably get messy.

    I think that if you do a good combustion analysis and an annual service (or every two years for other than mod con boilers) you would be doing an excellent service to the consumer.

    Kudos to you for continuing your education, and for always trying to be the best you can. Most people get locked into a rut and stay there for the rest of their lives. People here at The Wall always strive to make themselves better.

    By the way, I just got an email from a reader. I forgot to mention what the post cleaning efficiency was. It was 95%.

    Thanks for reading me.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • Justin Topel
    Justin Topel Member Posts: 65
    Do you

    have the model numbers of these items? If you cant post them on the wall, my email is [email protected]. Read the post about being stranded. Tried to reach Frisco last night to avoid the closure. No luck had to drive around the pass. Made it to Frisco around 2:00 a.m. for the solar class. No fun going down either. Oh well it will be 65 on Monday. If you don't like the weather here in Colorado, wait fifteen minutes. :-) Thanks again

    Mister T
  • Justin Topel
    Justin Topel Member Posts: 65
    If anyone else

    has any suggestions regarding flow meters, gas meters, or temp sensors that you like...feel free to chime it.
    Thanks

    Mister T
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,853
    WIll have to get back to you...

    The meters are in Denver, I'm in Northern Summit County.

    ME
    It's not so much a case of "You got what you paid for", as it is a matter of "You DIDN'T get what you DIDN'T pay for, and you're NOT going to get what you thought you were in the way of comfort". Borrowed from Heatboy.
  • hot_rod
    hot_rod Member Posts: 21,866
    combustion seminar by Roy Collver

    if you ever get a chance to attend a seminar by Roy it is well worth the time.

    He explained combustion in general but mostly as it pertains to mod cons. He now consults with IBC boilers in Canada.

    Checking the boiler exhaust temperature compared to the boiler fluid temperature will tell if you have a plugged or partially plugged HX, on either the water or combustion side. Or if the HX is to small to handle the fire rate. Especially on high fire. Check with the manufacturer for the spec on that delta t.

    If you see a mod con with discolored exhaust PVC, like the pic below, it's time to check the flue gas temperatures! maybe past time :)

    Dale Pickard reminded me of a statement from Harold Prell of Viessmann, regarding PVC for boiler venting.

    "PVC? That's sewer pipe... Don't you know?"

    hr
    Bob "hot rod" Rohr
    trainer for Caleffi NA
    Living the hydronic dream
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