Fumes from Oil Burner/Boiler

Mike C._4

Does it smell outside the house near the chimney? What are the chimney details-height and height over roof etc..

Mike

Sopuzzled

Fumes from Oil Burner/Boiler

We installed a Buderus boiler G21514 with Riello oil burner and hot water tank LT200 in our laundry room. The salesmen assured us the system was odorless and the room, which has a louvered door, was large enough for the air intake - 204 sq ft- We have had issues with fumes since the installation. The fumes escape into the house and permeate the clothes left to dry in the laundry rm.
The company came numerous times and made many attempts to resolve the problem, made adjustments, inspected the chimney, etc. They removed the damper so no combustion fumes escaped in room. The chimney is fine. They suggested that a vent should be installed to bring air from the outside. However when we opened the room to the outside through a storage area it did not solve the problem. When we opened the doors of the room plus windows the fumes got pulled towards and the smell got stronger by the windows. So they changed the burner to a Beckett with sealed combustion. The situation seemed to improve initially but the problem persists regardless of which doors/windows are open. The fumes escape and the clothes left in the laundry rm smell. Any idea what is happening? Thank you.

Unknown

I think it is time to get a second opinion. I have worked on and installed several of these boilers with both burners and not had these issues. I find it strange that they just changed the burner. Have they used digital anaylzers to check the operation? I suspect a flue / draft related issue. I don't think it is a boiler or burner problem.

steve_196

Wooden louvered doors allow 25 % of total area for free air. I bet this is at least part of the problem. It's dragging combustion byproducts down the chimney as it searches for oxygen. The venting system could certainly be part of this problem. What combustion set up equipment was used?

steve_196

Wooden louvered doors allow 25 % of total area for free air. I bet this is at least part of the problem. It's dragging combustion byproducts down the chimney as it searches for oxygen. The venting system could certainly be part of this problem. What combustion set up equipment was used?

R Mannino

Can We Get

some photos of the installation.

J.V.M.

Sounds like your home is in a vacum. You made need to bring in outside air to the laundry room by means of a Fan-in-a can. Fields makes this product I have used it before to spolve this problem. Good luck

Bob Harper

not enoughj info.

You need to get another professional in there who is qualified to perform combustion analysis and a worst case depressurization test. The makeup air requirements are based upon the aggregate of all combustion appliances input BTU/hr rating. If you have less than 50 cubic feet of room per 1,000 btu input and you have sufficient MUA for the dryer, you meet the code. However, if it is located in the basement, you probably still have a negative pressure issue. You need the combustion analysis to prove you don't have carbon monoxide spillage into the Combustion Appliance Zone first. Next, the analysis will tell you if the appliance is setup and operating properly. If it is properly setup and operating without CO spillage then your odor is related to: 1) offgassing of materials in direct contact with the appliance or it attending piping and controls, 2) something aerosolized that come in contact with the hot boiler forming new odiferous compounds only when the boiler is firing, or 3) the odor is there but the heat from the firing boiler increases the convective circulation caused by stack effect thus bringing the odors up into the living compartment. Odors are the most difficult thing to diagnose because they are subjective and people's sensitivities vary widely.
Regardless of what is causing the odor, you must ensure the appliance is installed and operating properly first and foremost. Then you need to try to eliminate possible sources. Wipe down the entire boiler with a citrus based solvent cleaner. Remove any insulating jackets and wipe down then fire. Note the character of the odor--chemical versus dirty sock versus hot metal smell, etc, Look for any adhesives such as foil tapes, which use an acrylic adhesive and will stink like plastic. See if you can localise the source. Maybe they used a different caulk or sealant. If it seems to be coming from the insulation, often something gets spilled into it or it is stored in a damp, musty area where the insulation acts like a sponge.
Lastly, install a low level CO monitor ASAP.
HTH,
Bob

billtwocase_7

Ditto

Dump the morons that can't resolve the odor issues, and get a real Tech in there. Laundry room screams negative pressure, and no to positive draft conditions from the chimney will occur. I would demand the Riello to be reinstalled. They run best with them I find. A picture is worth a thousand words if you can post some. I'm sure all here with share some words about the install. The problem is not with oil heat, it's the less than qualified boobs out there pretending to be service men. peace

Robert O'Brien

Bob Harper

Are you a BPI contractor/instructor?

JOHN_103

did you say that the beckett is now set up as sealed comb?
if so did they use a a cas kit to attach outside air directly to the burner?

nugs

The boiler is in the same room as the dryer? The dryer uses combustion air. The dryer pulls vac on the space also. sounds like you need some fresh air intake.

Jon_21

If I am not mistaken I said the house is in a Vaccum and outside air is needed. Also put the Riello back on the boiler. Who ever took that burner off the buderus doesnt know heating. Again Fields makes a Fan In a Can greaqt product and will solve this problem.

Bob Harper

BPI instructor?

No, sorry Robert I am not. I have seen the BPI courses and plan on taking some before long. As for my background, it is varied and boring. Sufficice it to say I learned about building science while diagnosing smoking fireplaces, which lead to me teaching the subject along with pressure diagnostics and building science coupled with professional inspection of the venting and appliance installation to code and the mfrs listed instructions then comphrehensive performance testing as part of a program for professional service, which I developed while Regional Quality Assurance Mgr. for a major hearth mfr. and distributor. When I wasn't teaching diagnostics or certification programs, I was writing service SOPs or managing product liability issues including fire investigations, soot claims, product recalls, etc.
In addition to being an NCI Certified CO & Combustion Analyst, I am a Certified Fireplace Inspector, & Certified Master Hearth Professional. I am the Eastern Director of the International Assn. of Fireplace and Chimney Inspectors, sit on the Hearth, Patio, & BBQ Gov't Affairs and Technical Advisory Cmtes, and I sit on the UL STP 103 for venting systems. I provide consulting, inspections, and restoration contracting in the Philly region and I teach all over.
If we run into each other at a show, the first cold one is on me.
Bob

Robert O'Brien

Bob Harper

I took the BPI Building Analyst class last week and it sounds like you should be teaching it,not taking it! I knew from you post that you had a bit of experience in this area and that's why I asked the question

Sopuzzled_2

The length of the chimney from flue connection to the roof is about 20 ft then it goes about 4 feet above roof. It 12 "x12". Was inspected and passed. Yes, it smells outside. When I stand down wind the smell- acid like- is very noticeable. Thank you

Sopuzzled_2

I will get pictures

Sopuzzled_2

Yes, they have used digital analyzers. The length of the chimney from flue connection to the roof is about 20 ft then it goes about 4 feet above the roof. It is 12 "x12". Initially they told me the chimney was too large but after checking it and the draft they said it was not the problem It smells outside. When I stand down wind from the chimney the smell of fumes is very noticeable. Acid-like smell. Does this indicate anything?
I am glad to hear you haven t had those issues. I was starting to question the system. THank you

Sopuzzled_2

Yes, the dryer is in the same room. But there doesn' t seem to be any correlation The dryer can be off for a week and the problem of fumes still persists I cannot figure out a pattern.

Sopuzzled_2

Yes the Beckett burner is with sealed combustion. It's not attached to an outside air exchange yet. THe company was 90% sure the Beckett would resolve the fume problem but it has not. Next step is to install the air exchange. But when I open doors and windows to bring more air into the laundry room, the fumes are drawn out of the laundry room. Why?

Bob Harper

"But when I open doors and windows to bring more air into the laundry room, the fumes are drawn out of the laundry room. Why? "
Read up on depressurization and stack effect. You house is like a chimney sucking air in low and it rises up through the house. Seal the upper level leaks then provide powered makeup air down low.
Bob

Bob Harper

A 12x12 flue is HUGE for any residential oil appliance. Most residential oil require a 5-7" round liner. The smell is from the sulfur in the oil forming sulfuric acid (battery acid). You need to get a qualified chimney inspector in there. Whoever told you this size flue was ok is obviously not qualified.

clammy

attic relief fan or who;e house fan

Do you have a whole house fan or a small attic relief fan or maybe a large kithen hood from the infromation and what you have stated it would seem to me that you have some negetive pressure with in your home .I have installed a few buderus g115 with mainly becketts and have never had any smell issues as you have stated .I would makes sure that you do not have any fans running in the home so not to pull a negetive pressure on the home ,next i would check your chimmey and make sure it's not bloked or has a damaged liner,i would guess that they have checked for all the correct perimeters for the burner itself vaume ,noz pressure co and draft if not find a new oil co,is this system running on a single or 2 pipe oil lines i personally take a hint from the germans and usually always use a tigerloop it always seems to improve the sharpness of the flame and always redues vaume whih usually will improve flame espially when your pump is running at 150 psi ,also just go for the fan in a can it is needed as the boiler is in a room with other devies that need and use oxygen peace and good luck clammy

Coughing

Fumes

I have a  Buderus boiler and Riello burner.  Been through a long ordeal ... new chimney, new liner.  Chimney raised up.  New outside air intake kit to burner.  Boiler vented properly and damper placed in stove pipe.  Still fumes coming up into the house.  Seemed better after damper was removed, but some fumes still coming upstairs into the living area (boiler room downstairs), and I don't know how they are getting here.  Have been nauseous from them and eyes burning.  Boiler mechanic and Buderus rep say everything checks out fine with boiler and burner.  Any ideas?

icesailor

CO?:

Do you have a CO(Carbon Monoxide) detector installed in the house? If you do, does it go off? If yes, you could try this backyard mechanic method, Get a battery powered one for each floor. Put one over the boiler and one on each floor near where you get the smell. Is the house very tight and new? I could take my Bacharach Insight digital analyzer probe and let it sniff around looking. Did they try anything like that? What is the draft over the fire and draft in the breeching?