Faulty powerpile or thermostat?

jumbee

Thanks Tim

I am a homeowner not a pro and until this morning I had never heard of a powerpile. I knew of a thermocouple but not a powerpile.

The voltage I measured was at the two wires with the tstat off the wall so I guess the tstat wasn't "calling". Also I don't know if this tstat can be used with a powerpile. The info on the box stated that it could be used with steam heat so I purchased it.

What's bugging me is that the system worked flawlessly until about a month ago. What I did notice was that when the system dosen't fire up even though the tstat shows all the correct reading on the LED I never hear the relay click that activates the boiler.

Another point is there a special tstat that's needed for a powerpile?

I would be interested in the info on how to trouble shoot the powerpile so I'll email you.

jumbee

Faulty powerpile or thermostat?

Hello experts, need some help
I have an old peerless steam boiler that uses a Honeywell Powerpile model # VS8187A 1138 that isn't manufactured anymore. Last year around October I installed an Honeywell Programmable tstat model # RTH6300B that has the setback features etc.
The system worked fine until a couple of months ago when sometimes the programmable feature dosen't work. The tstat would show the house temp and the heat temp but the boiler dosen't fire up. If I manually turn off the tstat and adjust the temp the boiler will start. Called Honeywell and was told that somehing was amiss with my line voltage.
So I pulled out my VOM and checked the voltage at the tstat...825 mV. Honeywell says that the tstat can only work at 750 mV.

My questions are
1) Is the powerpile going bad as I can't find out what the output voltage of this model Powerpile should be.
2)Is the relay on the tstat going bad causing this intermittent failure.
Any help in diagnosing this problem would be appreciated

Unknown

Powerpile

My first question is that thermostat compatible with powerpile? If so when you took a reading across the thermostat contacts was the thermostat calling? If not then what you read at 825 millivolts was the output of the generator, the generator is considered a 750 millivolt generator but can put out a lot more than 750 millivolts many times which is okay.

Next are you a homeowner or a pro?

My next question do you know how to troubleshoot a powerpile steam system? I assume you have a pressuretrol and low water cut off, if so the millivolt drop across those switches should be less than 10 millivolts. Many times the #11 MV switch on the McDonnell Miller 67 low water cutoff will have problems with high millivolt drop.

You will have to take an open circuit reading to determine output of the generator then a reading across the valve coil called a closed circuit reading, then a jumped out reading to determine if your problem is the gas valve or if it is the controls.

Powerpile is tricky because sometimes it will work and sometimes it will not.

I have a couple of choices to help- you out. I have a Troubleshooting Guide on how to take powerpile readings, which I will send you for FREE just give me a postal address by e-mail. I sell a complete manual on Powerpile Systems which if you are interested I can e-mail you a catalog. Your choice?

[Deleted User]

I never hear the relay click that activates the boiler.

have you looked at that relay?

[Deleted User]

and i also thank you tim

where can i get the book?

jumbee

> have you looked at that relay?

jumbee

> have you looked at that relay?

jumbee

> have you looked at that relay?




Mike...the relay or whatever it is makes a distinctive click sound just before the boiler fires up and that sound comes from the tstat itself. It sounds like a relay, however to access that would mean dismantling the tstat and some very advanced electronics and those skills I do not have.

Unknown

Battery condition?

Have you tried changing the backup battery? It may be more critical when the only other power source is the 750 millivolt thermal generator.

jumbee

> Have you tried changing the backup battery? It

> may be more critical when the only other power

> source is the 750 millivolt thermal generator.




That was the first thing I did. Put 2 brand new Duracells and the result was the same. After reading the manual for the tstat it stated that if the battery is low a little icon pops up on the LCD indicating as such.

Unknown

Powerpile

Lennox, I am not sure if that thermostat can be used with powerpile, many times programmable t'stats do not work well with powerpile. I contacted Honeywell to find out and also ask them for a programmable that is compatible. It usually takes them a while to get back to me so be patient and I will try to find out for you.

I e-mailed you some information, get me your postal address and I will send you the guide or you can purchase the manual whichever is best for you.

Unknown

Mike I will

e-mail you my catalog and you can order it from there.

jumbee

> I

> e-mailed you some information, get me your postal

> address and I will send you the guide or you can

> purchase the manual whichever is best for you.



Thanks Tim for your help. Postal address is on the way

G Waite

Im sorry but what is a powerpile?

Unknown

Powerpile is a

system developed by Honeywell (others also have self generating systems such as White Rodgers and Robertshaw) which uses a bunch of thermocouples all joined together to put out about 750 millivolts. This is sufficient to run a heating system gas valve control system using a powerpile gas valve designed for use with millivolts. It will not obviously run a circulator pump on forced hot water, or a fan on forced warm air but is used in conjunction with typical line voltage controls. It allows for gravity operation of those systems in a power failure however.

With steam systems it is a great operating system as steam does not need 120 volt or 24 volt power.

As a system for heating it stopped being used when dual seated redundant gas valves were mandated back in 1979. The controls are still available as replacements however.

Powerpile is still being used on decorative and unvented appliances today as they do not require dual seated valves.

Hope that helps to answer your question.

[Deleted User]

ah, relay in the stat

i thought you were talking about an other relay

[Deleted User]

e-mail you my catalog

thanks

ddlong1286@yahoo.com

Cooking Equipment Too?

Hey Tim,

I haven't seen any brand new deep fryers or gas ranges, but I believe they may still use the powerpile system on low end deep fryers and ranges. Kinda different working on kitchen equipment, you will have a simple power pile system on a deep fryer and next to it a high effeicency deep fryer with vent motors, pcb controls and spark ignition. Keeps you on your toes!

Haven't worked on a floor furance in a long time, but do they still use the power pile system on new floor furnaces?

Thanks Tim for your abundant knowledge!
Don in MO

Unknown

Don, yes

you can still get a fryer with powerpile along with some other commercial cooking equipment. It is the choice of the customer. I encourage them to use powerpile as they will never be down if there is a power failure on Friday for Fish and Chip day!

I have not seen a new floor furnace in a long time so I am not sure if they are still powerpile or not.