Serviceing the Ultra's

Dan H

So who's installing these regularly and servicing them? What have you been finding when you get inside. I've had a few "issues" this past week and was wondering if its a regional problem or problem in general.

Dan

[Deleted User]

what are the issues?

the tandem 2s we did two years ago haven't made a peep. the 3 that we're SERVICING now has had nothing but issues

Darrell_4

Except for the leaky seals, bad computers, eroded castings, plugged heat exchangers, plugged condensate drains, frost issues, poorly piped and controlled systems, lack of parts availability, a clumsy warranty program and overly optimistic expectations I haven't seen any problems at all.

[Deleted User]

ouch!

and i thought i and others had/have problems. but beta boards/screens seem to be the predominant issues. and aside from the 'poorly piped and controlled systems', that's not their fault, i'll keep me eyes open for the others

Lil-Roc

Don't forget terrible customer support ! At least from the Midwest Regional Office in IL. They never want to come to job sites, and give us wholesalers the run around. That makes us look bad in our customers eyes. I'm no longer going to offer the line. I'll sell it only if asked for, but then buy with caution.

Dan H

How many heat exchangers have been replaced because of holes in the combustion side near the condensate drain?
Is there a way to control how acidic the condensate can become while still in the exchanger?. Looks to me like the bottom of the heat exchanger could be a little thicker or something.

don_205

I wonder

I wonder after reading all these post.Is it possible that the trap that makes the seal between the drain line and inducer motor is not deep enough?

Maybe the inducer is causing some of the condensate be held up in the hx and not letting it drain.

I know..the pressure switch would not let it fire right.
Not really i've seen some furnace that would have this issue of short cycling the burner on high fire and then when it went in low fire there would be no issue.

Just something to think about as a tech in the field and what one could do to help resolve the issue.

It would not be the first time that guys like us has fixed the problem in the field.

One man junk is another man treasure.

[Deleted User]

acidic condensate eating

the hx?! oh-oh, i hope i'm not going to run into that. and so far, the condensate is collecting in the pump and being pumped out

we may be trying a munchkin on our next install

Darrell_4

I'm thinking that WMC, and any aluminum HX, should re-design the whole thing so that we can dump about a pound of limestone chips into the bottom of the darn thing. Lots of irritated customers coming out way when their five year old wonder boiler needs to be replaced.

Actually...that's not a bad idea....I wonder what would happen if I accidentally left some chips in the next Ultra I open up...EVERYONE of them have been eroded.

[Deleted User]

what the heck's

the water like in your area?! our area is mostly limestone, and it plays heavy on some things but.......
our company also promotes/does water treatment, and most people do softeners at least. and i do remember weil mentioning water testing, esp for hardness and ph, and responding accordingly

Darrell_4

No, No, No! The Water side has it's own issues! I'm talking about the fire side and the condensate that rains inside of the boiler and runs across the bottom on its way to the drain.

Tony_23

don

You obviously don't know the design of an Ultra. There is no "inducer", there is a burner blower. Quite a difference. No pressure switch either.

Do a little homework before posting conjecture.

Paul MacDougall

Does the Buderus GB 142 have the same HX issues? They are both made out of alummiunm.

joel_19

answer

Stainless HX period done all we'll sell it's that simple guys.

don_205

You're right

I do not have a clue.Thankyou for the great advice.Too bad you yourself have nothing to add to the thread.

I promise next time to aim better that way I will miss your cornflakes.

Darrell_4

Stop Fighting

Hey! This is a perfectly good thread with the potential to help some folks save alot of money and even help a manufacture address some equipment issues. Do not turn it into a grade school playground name calling thread.

Howard

series 3 today

I was looking at a 105 series 3 installed by others. Lockout ignition failure. WM support says check electrode gap, possible gas valve failure or its wire harness. Once on startup it made a relatively loud sparking sound then went into lockout again. The tech on the phone heard the sparking. Other wierd thing is in the tech mode when trying to select reset to clear the lockout, it would not clear, just go to the previous screen when enter (middle button) is pressed. Also the metric nuts on the front cover were finger tight. I tightened those. Gas pressure good at drip leg near boiler. Replaced electrode/sensor. I'm at a ma & pa shop near Chicago.

don_205

Thats not fighting

Thats two people getting to know one another.

Ok.being I do not know much about the boiler, but have alittle knowledge when it comes to customer service let me ask a question contractor to contractor.

If you believe the product to be no good.Do you keep it on the wall and wait for weil mclain to make it right?

Or, do you replace it with some other piece of equipment at your expense to keep the customer happy?

joel_19

??

That's a much tuffer question to answer we try to get as much from the company in question as possible. We have succeded in some cases getting new equipment with updates in them from the manufacturer and then putting them in at our exspense. Very painful to have to do that when you know it's not your fault.

When we have had to do that at our exspense we make it VERY clear to the HO that it's us pulling for them not the company who built the thing. This has worked out because in a couple cases they became great advocates for us since we stood behind our work when the giant corporation wouldn't.

We've also had some suppliers be very helpful in such cases when we actually had to buy new stuff giving us extreemly low pricing basically at cost or awfully close.

Dan H

To be more specific, 2 of the 3 boilers in question are only used to make DHW. The other is used for heating and DHW.
My thinking is the higher temps needed to make DHW are coming into play here but why? Shouldn't it make less condensate running at the higher temps? Are we all thinking this is just an AL exchanger problem in general or is there more to it? To be fair, these boilers ran for 2 years almost none stop without any service. All in all I haven't ran into many problems with the hundred or so Ultra's we've installed in the last 5-6 years. Hopefully this isn't the beginning of a large headache just starting.

[Deleted User]

the water side has it's own issues?

correct, and weil and others specifically state that the wrong ph, and specifically hardness, will cause excessive sediment and cause corrosion in AL HXs. and auto-feed fresh water make-up will also add to it, as in, more H2O makes more H2CO3

Tony_23

Ah

You mean as opposed to the "great advice" you offered ? With improper information ?

I could add to this thread, but its a bashing thread, not a productive one. Most of the problems listed are either installation flaws or avoidable. I have no interest in bashing a product I'm somewhat happy with, nor am I interested in giving out free technical advice on a public, homeowner dominated website.

Keep on hitting my cornflakes, I eat Cheerios.

don_201

Just

Just say you dont know.I was man enough to admit it.

Why would someone that calls himself a comfortpro have any worry of a ho.

Maybe I could get alittle free advice being I'm not a home owner.

What would I be looking for on one of these boiler when it come to draft,co,o2? I assume this boiler modulate its firing rate does it also have a variable speed burner blower on it as well?

Is the o2 the same on lowfire as it is in highfire?

I guess it would be safe to answer some of these question being most ho would not have a clue, would you agree?

TIA.

Tony_23

No worry

I'm not worried about HO's in the manner you imply. They are not a threat to me. They can be a threat to themselves, however.

I already answered the question about burner blower.

If you're in the trade you could find this info yourself, with a little work, and interpret it. If you're looking for "free advice" so you can sound like you know the product, keep looking.

[Deleted User]

tony, you're something else man

'nor am I interested in giving out free technical advice on a public, homeowner dominated website.'

this a homeowner dominated website? and if so, what are you doing here giving out free tech advice? or does giving out free tech sarcasm qualify your above statement?

don_201

Never mind

Why do you even come to a site as this one?

No need to answer.I can hear the chest pounding all the way down here in virginia.

Tony_23

HH.com

Used to be populated by professionals giving some advice. Now it is dominated by HO's who think they know what a pro knows, and they give advice based on their experiences with ONE boiler, their own.

You didn't read any advice from me, and you likely won't much.

Sarcasm directed at someone who gives erroneous advice and implies he knows the product simply points out the fact that he doesn't. So sue me....

don_201

[Deleted User]

tony

these are contradictory statements; 'You didn't read any advice from me, and you likely won't much.' 'any' and
'much' are contradictory terms

and, i'd bet i can go back and find 'some' advice from you. and frequently in the, 'i'll prove to them that i'm a pro' type. when a person knows that 1+1=2, there shouldn't be any need to prove it to anyone. that is, if you're secure in your knowledge as a 'pro'. but just doing it for a living doesn't make you pro

DanHolohan

I agree.

Matt_71

Ignition fault

To reset an ignition fault on an ultra series 3 you have to either power cycle the boiler or wait an hour and it will reset itself!

Tom Elam

Cleaned my 155 in August 2008

I cleaned my boiler last Oct,it had been in service 4 heating seasons. The bottom of the heat exchanger was in good shape. There is no washout or thinning of the aluminum.
The cover plate insulation was worn out and needed to be replaced. The new insulation is a different design, like a Kevlar or Nomex material. Now the boiler is supplying our indirect water heater in adittion to space heating. I'll see how it looks in 4 more years. My boiler came with the push in freeze plugs that had to be replaced with the screw in type.

So far these are the only issues, I am happy with this boiler.

[Deleted User]

i agree

with pros who know how to behave like pros. but i also agree that pro posers should be dealt a professional blow to their pretentious egos

10ish years ago, i was once a lowly ho with only dan's book in my hand, a very rusty(circa '71), old school apprentice's knowledge of plumbing, and i ended up with a very professional staple-up job in my home. and today, i can justifiably say that due to the photo resume of my radiant job, i was able to get back into the plumbing field. and the impetus was dan's professional 'advice'.
thanks dan

Howard

Reset Ultra

THANX MATT
That's good to know. Tech from Indiana must have been incorrectly telling me to clear it thru the menu. Power switch did the trick. Glad it's not necessarily a control malfunction. Electrode looked a bit tan. Round thing the wire clips on looked crooked. Time will tell if lockout happens again.
Howard