Solar roofjacks

Derheatmeister

I am looking for some Strong solar roof jacks

A friend recommends AEE

Larry Weingarten

By strong you mean?

I've used Kee Klamps and steel pipe for years, with the right flashing as needed. It's quite strong. What is your job needing?

Yours, Larry

Justin Topel

Richard

What height are you installing these at? The ones I have used mainly are the FastJacks (www.prosolar.com). They come in a variety of heights for most applications. They also have a lot of other helpful attachment methods on this site. Another person to call in your neck of the woods is Dave over at NGE in Lafayette. He has some very inovative mounting hardware. I still go round and round with some concerning the mouting of any bracket into trusses. One truss engineer will allow this size hole, this one another. I know some use 3/8" lag bolts. This to me is quite crazy. I still prefer to use the special high strength bolts that are a lot smaller in diameter, yet match the same specs as a 3/8" lag bolt. I cannot always see the trusses with the roofing alreasy installed. I try an locate them with a nail, but even with a predrilled hole, the 3/8" has the potential to split out the truss top chord. It's simply not worth it to me. However if the engineer signs and stamps his name on the drawing...well it's up to you. Or place a Timberstrand, LVL, or wood block along side the truss and bolt to that. Just make sure you glue it as well. Hope this helps a little.

Mister T

michael_34

Thompson technologies

Flat Jacks.
http://www.thompsontec.com/products/flatjack.html

hot_rod

flashing and mounting

here is an East/ West collector array I just installed.

These are the QuickFlashing AC 250 flashings. Designed for AC linesets they fit that insulated tubing for solar perfectly.

I'm leaning away from lag bolts into rafter or trusses. It is possible to split and ruin a top chord or split the rafters. This could damage the integerity of the truss.

I like to all thread, block under two rafter or truss, and add a vertical block under the bracket.

Or the L-bolts available from Simpson to latch under and around the rafters.

Derheatmeister

Larry

Thanks Larry, I am Dealing with some heavy snow loads up here in Colorado . I've seen some installs were the mounts do not hold up to well. i.e. the old Novan systems,and do not want mounting problems..Fast jack and AEE come recommended by Sean Cunningham and he is also talking about regular galv. 1 inch floor flanges with 1 inch galv. nipples and regular flanges.

Kee Klamps are from Grainger??

hot_rod

jacks for piping penetrations?

or for the mounts?

I just installed this East/ West array with the AC 250 from QuickFlash. It's designed for AC linsets thru the wall but fits the pre-insulated SolarFlex nicely.

Normally the jacks could fit tightly to the panel. I wanted the panels close to the peak, so I had to loop the SolarFlex. Not the best detail for heavy snow country like yours.

I'm having second thoughts about lag bolts into rafter or trusses. It's easy to split and destroy the integrity of a truss or rafter, especially with a 3/8 lag.

Some trusses use 2X4 for the top chord. If you split that the member is destroyed.

I believe Wisconsin FOCUS has banned lags into rafters?

A few options... all-thread with a block across several rafters. Also use a small vertical block against the bottom of the sheathing to keep everything tight.

Use stainless steel all-thread with a stainless acorn nut on top for a nice seal and finish.

EternaBond double stick tape is a great "gasket" between the mount and roof material. Approved for metal, asphalt and many composite roof materials. It actually wraps around the bold and goes into the hole!

Simpson makes L bolts in galvanized versions. These will hook under a rafter for a solid hold. 1/2" diameter only.

The brackets and square tube that come with collectors should mount without roof jacks, as long as the bolt holes are sealed.

Snow creep or snow shed would be a concern in the mountains. Keep them near the peak.

Or maybe a ground or awning mount

hr

Derheatmeister

Justin

Justin,Thanks that is a lot of helpful information , i know that 3/8 may not be that good if you do not predrill large enough or you do not hit it straight on(Dead Center strud).
Also in school they were teaching us that it is the both surfaces of the jointing areas that are compressed together which create friction or the lack thereof which is what you want, Sooo the bolt just needs to be strong enough to keep the surfaces thighly together, and the larger the surfaces the better connection and or friction.

Oh yes in this chase i will be able to gain access to the roof/Attic to install BIG biffy backers between the trusses and that is rare that this situation arises,so that is great! this will also keep some of the piping under the roof.

As per the height of the install i am thinking at least 4 to 6 inch so that the snow can "slide" under or what do you think? Thanks again Richard

Derheatmeister

hr

hr nice east west install! Dual pump station and Som7? what kinda collectors,domestic 79 gallon tank?

Yes slitting the trusses is something i want to avoid and in this chase i will be able to use backer plates.
The L bolts sounds like a very solid connection! where do you get these bolts?
I like the flanges that you used for the piping but i am not sure if the snow/ice will not creep into something like that up here.So far i had no problems with regular flanges.
Thank you for sharing all the information!Richard

Derheatmeister

Michael.

Michael, thank you, at first i thougth it was "flap jacks"( kinda like pancakes i think)?It was something from a other post which was not very positive.

Have you used these Flat jacks and how do they holding up?

Thank you very much Richard.

Justin Topel

Sounds good

I think that six inches is a great height. My friend recently ordered the 3" jacks and it wasn't the best for aesthetics with the flashing boots. Six inch jacks will allow for your preferred method sealing. We usually provide the roofer with high quality boots and let him install them. I don't want an insurance claim for something that I am really not set up for..roofing. It is worth hiring them to place it under their insurance. I do what I do well, let them do what they do well. Hopefully that is. What kind of panels are you going with? If there is anything I can do to help you with this, let me know. I am in your neck of the woods if you are the Heatmeister who supplied us with well made fermented beverages at Wetstock last year.

Mister T

Metro Man

lag momma lag

I have yet to see a better method than 1/4"(or slightly larger if worried about splitting but we don't) pre drilling a rafter, filling with silicone, then winding a 3/8" lag in for mounting solar collectors to roofs, short of expensive curbs that add height to the array. 26+ years and never an issue.

The problem with L hook bolts, all thread, wooden blocks, is the wood eventually shrinks and then hardware loosens. Then you have a leak. If you really wanted to get anal you could perlin a 4 x4 for more bite.. but think it is overkill. Properly installed lag bolts are sealed from the get go... If your installing this other hardware then your in the attic anyway and can make sure pre drill is through center of rafter. You don't need a 9" lag bolt... usually 3-3-1/2" is fine. Get lag bolts that are threaded the entire length or you will need to pre drill small portion out with 3/8" or will strip.

If the local inspectors are giving you grief then I would like to see documentation of "lags gone bad".

Not crazy about the way you have to loop the return in order to make the stainless piping go through roof buts seems more and more installers are opting for this method. I guess it is whatever you are comfortable with.

Heat miestro.... what were your country men doing for solar mounts at ISH and still waiting for email for the free Keystone?


Metro Man

Derheatmeister

Wetstock

Yes and that was Dillon Dam beer.

I will be using 9 Viessmann Horizontal Panels and they will be interfaced with a Hottub/Domestic and some Heat(House is not always occupied and in setback via "Autodailer"/Viessmann Interface)
Cannot wait to get the panels up and running but i am still working against snow.

BTW i am having a party at the Basin (A-Basin) this weekend,even if you do not ski it will be lots of fun!
I will have a Hottub hooked up to the Trailer and we will have DAM beer,Bratwurst and Women in bikinis at the Beach. All are welcome to join. After the Basin we will continue with Bondfire/beers at my house..

Derheatmeister

Wetstock

Yes and that was Dillon Dam beer.

I will be using 9 Viessmann Horizontal Panels and they will be interfaced with a Hottub/Domestic and some Heat(House is not always occupied and in setback via "Autodailer"/Viessmann Interface)
Cannot wait to get the panels up and running but i am still working against snow.

BTW i am having a party at the Basin (A-Basin) this weekend,even if you do not ski it will be lots of fun!
I will have a Hottub hooked up to the Trailer and we will have DAM beer,Bratwurst and Women in bikinis at the Beach. All are welcome to join. After the Basin we will continue with Bondfire/beers at my house..

Metro Man

boat..

Think I may be in the boat for the last weekend. Hope your using lots of chemicals in the tub.. sounds like fun. Maybe a bikinis gone wild episode???

Will take a rain check and will call next time I am in the hood.

Metro Man.

hot_rod

yes, dual

pump station and arr. 7.

Thinking one panel at a time would be running, I went with a 50 gallon tank. HOWEVER, with that low pitch, and the collectors at the ridge I am seeing both pumps running quite often. Even at 3:00 PM the east collector is adding. I may have to upsize the tank.

It is at my next door neighbors, I think I will slap a data logger on it. I did enable the re-cool function, but I rather collect, save, and use the energy not run it back to the great outdoors.

That jack, in my opinion offwers the same seal as a plumbing roof jack, and those are often snow covered. That jack has a very deep and flexible grommet as it is built to seal around a foam insulation.

It is designed for vertical applications however, and not "officially" listed for solar or pitched roofs. The manufacture is considering a solar specfic offering and listing if enough are interested.

With a lot of pre-insulated piping products being offered from many of the solar manufacturers, a dependable roof jack is needed.

hr

Metro Man

hr

Make sure that the west collector isn't actually heating east and keeping warm enough to fool delta T

If you are due east 3pm is pretty late in day

Metro Man

Justin Topel

Drillin' Trusses...

Is what I have heard others doing as well. I just had a truss engineer tell me that he would not allow an anchor over .250 into their design. That is why he said the Simpson structural lags are .248". Sometimes they are at the threshold limit for the trusses and do not want to rely on someone drilling the perfect hole in the center. You can sometimes drill a hole right along side the truss with an 1/8" bit since it will be under the flashing and then measure over 3/4" to find exact center if the roofing is already on. I just follow whatever the engineer will sign off on. They know that there is a lot of people out there who are not as conscientious as we may be. They have to protect themselves which is understandable. On new construction I can glue in a Timberstrand or LVL board that insures there will be no problems later with a picky engineer. I knew of an electrician who drilled some small holes in a truss that had a 2X10 bottom chord for an attic. They made him sandwich both sides of all of the trusses with select 1X10 material. He lost all of his profit and overhead from a simple oversight. In these days with everyone suing for no good reason...I just try and play it safe. If the engineer signs it, I will do it like he wants.
Richard I would love to come up there this weekend, but work has me a little backed up right now. Not complaining at all. I would love to make it up there sometime and have some GOOD beer. Viessman makes some good panels. A little different then some, but still very high quality. Good luck with the system.

Mister T

michael_34

Flat jacks pancakes

Use them all the time for PV and Evacuated tube installs. I have not used them with Flat plates. They work great. They do take a 3/8 lag into the trusses/rafters. There is so much debate on using lag bolts. I do sister extra support to the existing rafters/trusses for solar thermal applications. Hot Rod has more experience with it then I do.
One thing is if you are going to lag in, pre-drill from the attic out. That way you are for sured to be in the middle of the wood.
Another way when I worked at Cedar Mountain is to through bolt the truss. We backed the bolt with a 1/8" to 1/4" steel stock. The steel stock would go on the bottom side before the washers and nut, directly to wood.
Back to the Flat jacks, they work great, but the man problem is they are not to edible! Feel free to contact me at michael@renovusenergy.com . I dig up pictures of installs.

michael

hot_rod

updated codes, etc

as solar becomes more mainstream what we are seeing is some review and updates to the components, codes and procedures.

The IAMPO Solar Code is being reviewed and updated, SRCC is adding testing labs and updating guidelines.

We can expect to see new products and methods being suggested, or required.

I too have used silicone as the sealant my entire carrer. It works well on most roofing materials, not great on some of the slick coated metal roofing. But I have discovered products that work as well and better, like the EternaBond roofing tapes, special roofing fasteners, better controls and pump stations, etc.

I don't mind embracing new technology if it proves to be better.

Yes a lot of the new requirements will be decided from a liability issue. The severe storms in Florida have changed a lot of the thinking on fastener types and methods.

Then again getting lawmakers involved in engineering decisions can lead to some real head scratchers.

Generally a good tradesperson will be able to determine good from bad installation methods and products, in the abstinence of a code or guideline. Common sense goes a long way especially when drilling and tightening things

hr

hot_rod

updated codes, etc

as solar becomes more mainstream what we are seeing is some review and updates to the components, codes and procedures.

The IAMPO Solar Code is being reviewed and updated, SRCC is adding testing labs and updating guidelines.

We can expect to see new products and methods being suggested, or required.

I too have used silicone as the sealant my entire carrer. It works well on most roofing materials, not great on some of the slick coated metal roofing. But I have discovered products that work as well and better, like the EternaBond roofing tapes, special roofing fasteners, better controls and pump stations, etc.

I don't mind embracing new technology if it proves to be better.

Yes a lot of the new requirements will be decided from a liability issue. The severe storms in Florida have changed a lot of the thinking on fastener types and methods.

Then again getting lawmakers involved in engineering decisions can lead to some real head scratchers.

Generally a good tradesperson will be able to determine good from bad installation methods and products, in the abstinence of a code or guideline. Common sense goes a long way especially when drilling and tightening things

hr

Larry Weingarten

Better late...

Here is a page from Grainger with Kee Klamps. You can build most anything from them.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg/productIndex.shtml?L2=Structural+Pipe+Fittings&operator=mfgRefinementSearch&originalValue=Kee+Safety&L1=Kee+Safety

Yours, Larry