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WHAT IS THE BEST MOD CON ON THE MARKET AS OF TODAY ??????

S Ebels_2
S Ebels_2 Member Posts: 74
in THE MAIN WALL
And here's why.

While I prefer the Vitodens 200 series for most types of systems because of it's burner, the design of the HX, ease of service, the gauge of material used in the HX and rock solid factory support, it is not the only boiler out there that I use.

I have run into more than a few systems that the Vito would not be the best choice for and in those cases I recommend and use something else. There is no one boiler that is the "best" for any and all jobs.

That's the crux of the issue and Mark has already spoken to that point. the most critical piece of any boiler installation or replacement is not the boiler, it's the installer. If he can't recognize factors and circumstances present on any given install that would make one brand
(operating system) better than the next the chances of a successful marriage of product and user are slim. In addition, if the installer is unfamiliar with the product, or doesn't possess the knowledge and/or equipment to set it up correctly both the boiler and the end user will suffer. Often with the blame laid on the product and not his incompetence or ignorance.

AFA Munchkin goes, I have to say that probably 9 out of 10 failures I have encountered were installation related......and I have serviced/repiped/tuned up a bunch of them. Keep in mind that the Munchkin was probably the first moderately priced M/C boiler to hit the market. Lot's of installers put them in just like they did the last cast iron boiler they piped up. Guess what.......that doesn't work with a Munchkin. Nor does it work with any other M/C boiler. They are a different breed of cat than your fathers boiler and they all come with parameters that have to be followed.

I have nothing but good to say about my interaction with HTP and the Munchkin boiler. HTP has stood behind their product every time I asked and sometimes even when the failure was not the fault of the product itself. They had some "teething" pains, some of their own making and some with vendor supplied components. I all cases that I have come across they honored what I would expect them to honor. I can't say it any more plainly than that.

Comments

  • RICK JAMES
    RICK JAMES Member Posts: 11
    MOD CON

    WHAT IS THE BEST MOD CON ON THE MARKET TODAY
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,858
    None of them...

    It's not the Mod Con that makes the job work. Its the installer!

    And your question is a loaded question with only one correct answer, that answer being, "It Depends!"

    Just curious, why are you YELLING!?

    ME

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  • gerry gill
    gerry gill Member Posts: 3,078
    in my opinion,

    the one you can get parts for!!! try to figure out why i have that opinion..supply houses,,hah,,they want to sell you the boiler but when you need a part for one,,,well...

    To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"
    gwgillplumbingandheating.com
    Serving Cleveland's eastern suburbs from Cleveland Heights down to Cuyahoga Falls.

  • Dave Stroman
    Dave Stroman Member Posts: 766


    Maybe we should turn it around. What are the bad ones to stay away from. And even the good ones have some problems and little things that can cause problems if you don't know what to watch for. Most of us learn the little hints and kinks when working with them. The little things that a manufacturer or wholesaler are not very forth coming with. Maybe it's a problem getting parts, or it is hard to get a phone call back. We do not have to get nasty, just say what sort of problems we have had and what was done to over come them.

    Dave Stroman

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  • Dave Stroman
    Dave Stroman Member Posts: 766


    I stock more repair parts for the boiler I use than any supplier in town. Even the local rep has no parts and has dropped the line. I have contractors calling me looking for parts. Many suppliers businesses are rigged where they are penalized for stocking parts that do not fly off the shelves.

    Dave Stroman

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  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,858
    I've never had a boiler that DIDN'T have problems...

    And I've installed a LOT of different boiler brands in my 35 year stint.

    It's not a matter of IF, but more a matter of WHEN, and then it boils down to how the manufacturer handles the problem.

    For the most part, I've had good luck with all manufacturers. Can't think of any that I would/could bad mouth.

    For the most part, if you install their appliances the way they ask you too, it should be pretty reliable, but you MUST service it regularly to get reliability.

    ME

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  • Cam_2
    Cam_2 Member Posts: 36
    Worst is Munckin by a long shot

    You could write a book just from postings on this site regarding error codes and failures. This boiler is responsible for more call backs than any other in history. We switched over 3 years ago to the Triangle Tube Prestige. NOT ONE CALL BACK. The ill famed Munchie 25+ call backs in 5 years! The installers refused to put them in! Horrible track record, horrible boiler. Not sure what's best? Prestige has been amazing but one thing I'm sure of is that Munchin from HTP is the Yugo of mod/cons.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 672
    munchkin's are bad?

    You could write a book just from postings on this site?
    like the ultra 3?

    i haven't been here very long, but the few munch posts that i've read were very positive. would you direct me to the other posts?
  • joel_19
    joel_19 Member Posts: 931
    been there

    This has been hashed out before but here we go.

    1. the best boiler for you is installed by the best company in town who offers 24/7 service and parts. Suppliers do not want to stock parts and most won't . Consequently good HVAC shops must. We have around 15-20k$ in parts in stock all the time. If your installer doesn't carry this kind of inventory then find someone who does.

    2. The best Mod con made is the Viessmann Vitodens 200 period end of thread.

    3. Example: last night we went out and fixed a Triangle Tube Prestige. Now this is my #2 modcon a very good boiler so not bashing. The inducer fan blew up,stuff happens. We went out had part and fixed it.It was 3yold the customer would have been SOL untill monday if we didn't have it.

    Also went out last night and fixed a Viessmann oil boiler for a new customer. Got home at 11:30.

    Anything can break find the guys in your town with the parts and NATE certified techs and higher them!! Yes, they will not be the cheap bid!
  • Cam_2
    Cam_2 Member Posts: 36
    Mike you must be new

    For several years this has been discussed. They are bottom of the barrel.

    Start here: 107 posts and counting

    http://forums.invision.net/Search_Results.cfm?CFApp=2
  • Cam_2
    Cam_2 Member Posts: 36
    Vitodens

    except for the fire hazard recall, maybe but the potential for the public's harm kind of kicked them out of the best category.
  • radmix
    radmix Member Posts: 194
    Ex munchkin guy

    Within the last 6 years I have installed well over 100 munchkin boilers. Last winter I had one call back because of a faulty outdoor sensor. Like mark said there are no boilers that do not break down. But in your case I would be looking @ the faulty installation first.
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 672
    thanks, e-mgc

    i'll read up on them
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 672
    NATE certified tech

    yippie! i've got one cert down, and many more to get
  • Dave Stroman
    Dave Stroman Member Posts: 766


    Munchkin was the first kid on the block. They had everything pretty much sorted out by the time the others came along and they got the benefit of that.

    Maybe someone should set up a business stocking and supplying boiler parts and over night them. Should would make our lives easier. I heard a story the other day about someone waiting for 6 weeks for a part to come from Europe, then to Canada, then through customs, and finally here. Now that is just BS.

    Dave Stroman

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  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,581
    VIESSMANN

    We Service all kinds of boilers that "Others" have installed..

    We see a lot of None Ox in conjunction with Ferrous materials and this keeps us very busy!

    Back to the "Best Boiler Awards": Again,i have serviced and installed all kinds of boilers and the bottom line is: Viessmann is by far the Best !!

    BUT: As Mark and others mentioned the in this post nothing is perfect(Although Viessmann is close to it)and things can break and will be in need for service.

    I am a parts stocking/supporting heating contractor for: Viessmann.Triangle Tube and Baxi Luna which i will start to discontinue because of support issues.(not the boiler's fault)

    None Stocking Wholesalers have called me for parts in the past! they shall be ashamed of them self!
    A none stocking Wholesaler shall be not allowed to sell a product!

    Viessmann in Germany has a programm that eliminates this problem: you can call a "Hotline" order the part and they will send it "RED" to you without any delay, the parts will be on your service truck front seat the next morning!

    Even with this i recommend using a parts stocking heating contractor like Joel and myself !

    Think positive... Richard.
  • Leo G_103
    Leo G_103 Member Posts: 34
    in my part of the world

    IBC is the best, hands down! Titanium alloy stainless heat exchanger, set in a vertical position so the crud don't collect. Best venting options from 2, 21/2, 3 or 4". Best thought out wiring board par none. And withuot a doubt, the best and easiest programming that i have ever dealt with! Not like the big V's complicated programming. Super support and very good tech assistance. Low head loss through x-changer, so smaller more effecient circ can be used. Just can't say enough good things about this boiler. I will be surprised if it doesn't last a good 25-30 years!
    Can ya tell that i like it alot???? LOL!

    namaste, deva

    oh yeah, on their 150 model, a 10-1 turndown - AWESOME!!!
  • tim smith
    tim smith Member Posts: 2,807
    Richard, I agree to a point that the Viessmann is the best

    built piece of equipment. I do not feel it is the best design. The TT and it's vertical heat exchanger I think is the best design out there. Reliability has been very good. Set up and non propiertary "ishness" of it makes me lean towards it more than the Viessmann Vito. The Viessmann and its Titanium stabilized heat x is quite a piece of engineering although and a well thought out boiler. I still stand by my analogy of the Viessmann is a Rolls and the TT is a Mercedes, albeit a C class probably. Not all need or want a Rolls even though they can afford it. Tim
  • Cam_2
    Cam_2 Member Posts: 36
    Munchie = Crap!

    C'mon get real, inferior boiler no matter who puts them in. If you aren't putting in Buderus, Triangle Tube or Viessmann you are not in the same league, ball park or neighborhood. End of story!!!!!!!!!!
  • Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes_4
    Alan(CaliforniaRadiant)Forbes_4 Member Posts: 5
    GlowCore

    was the worst although it wasn't modulating, but I just had to mention them.

    Yes, installation is important, but my list (from good to bad) are: Viessmann, Prestige, Munchkin.
  • radmix
    radmix Member Posts: 194
    munchie=crap

    I'm sorry bill. I just have not had many problems with this boiler. My up-sell is the solo Prestige, I have many installed this season without problems. Not every customer can afford the high end boiler so instead of loosing a sale, I will sell a more affordable unit. Setting up the boiler on start up and maintaining the boiler yearly is the key.
  • S Ebels_2
    S Ebels_2 Member Posts: 74
    Bill

    I don't know if you were replying directly to me but if you were.........did you read the opening statement of my post?

    As far as units with AL heat exchangers go, I think the jury is still out at this point. That being the case I'm not installing or recommending anything with an aluminum block.
  • Justin Topel
    Justin Topel Member Posts: 65
    I know the best boiler!

    Here are the options that come standard with it
    1. It's free!!
    2. It installs itself!!
    3. It always pumps away even with no circulator!!
    4. It gives you a stimulus check as well!!
    5. It has a heat exchanger that is made of Di-Lithium crystals that are installed by Capt Scotty's great nephew
    6. It is personally endorsed by Chuck Norris and two of his former neighbors!!
    7. You can run only one loop for the entire house, no matter the size, and it will determine it's own Delta T!
    8. It is compatible with Entran tubing!!
    9. It's installation manual comes with a complete set of 36 crayons and has multiple pages for you to color other manufacturer's inferior boilers if desired!!
    10. It modulates to an unheard of 33 1/3:1

    Now if I can only think of the brand. I'll have to look this one up again. It is on the tip of my tongue, but I cannot seem for the life of me to remember it now. Maybe since it is midnight and I am on my seventh cup of coffee...my mind is not working correctly. I'll have to get back to you guys on this one. All I seem to remember is that it is only sold through qualifying home shopping networks. I might remember in the morning, or I'll read this post and wonder what was in this coffee.

    Mister T
  • Mark Eatherton
    Mark Eatherton Member Posts: 5,858
    It's the...

    ViessMunchLaarsTigeErusUltraBobWeilLunaIBCoreRay that the Heatmeister is putting together. Gawd, that's going to be one ugly boiler.....

    You could probably power a house off of the stray electricity generated by the alumistaincuprocastiron heat exchanger:-)

    And talk about pumps, you CAN heat the house from the waste heat off of all the required circulators. It is GUARANTEED to win the RPA contest because of all the pumps.

    What IS in your coffee?

    Where are you located at Justin. I'm going to be showing the window and doing public education in Eagle at the KCMV spring Home and Rec. show in April.

    There was an error rendering this rich post.

  • Justin Topel
    Justin Topel Member Posts: 65
    Coffee? What Coffee..

    Mark,

    I live in Fort Collins. I saw your windows down at Wetsock and loved them, but didn't get the chance to take talk too much about them. Let me know when you are showin' the windows, I'd love to check them out again. Eagle is not too far a drive. If you'd like to email me the info, or post it hear, I would love to go. P.S. You have any classes coming up?
    Thanks

    Mister T
  • [Deleted User]
    [Deleted User] Posts: 0
    Classes...

    THanks for asking Justin.

    I will be doing a 4 night Night School Class for the Charles D, Jones Co. at their Bryant Street facility in Denver the week of April 20th.

    You can register at

    http://www.cdjones.com/Training_Programs.html

    The class for the KCMV folks will be two one hour freebie's to be presented at their 2nd annual Home and Recreation show, at the Eagle County Fair Grounds building, in Eagle Colorado, the weekend of April 25th and 26th.

    I will be speaking at 11:00 AM on Saturday and Sunday. I will be telling homeowners how to do solar without getting burnt, how to do GSHP wihtout getting buried, and how to do wood gasifying appliances without getting splinters, followed by 15 minutes of open Q&A.

    We will have the radiant windows on display at that function. I will be manning the booth with the rest of the RGI folks for the balance of the time.

    I look forward to meeting fellow Wallies at these and other (TBA) up coming functions.

    Thanks for asking, and thanks to Dan and TLM for allowing me the opportunity to tell you about it on this site.

    ME
  • Tom Lavin
    Tom Lavin Member Posts: 1


    I sell and provide tech support on Baxi and Viessman. I Don't often post here but had to say AMEN to the point made about installation! A professional contractor that asks the questions when he has them, looks at the entire SYSTEM and designs piping & pumping appropriately, will make you happy with whatever brand you choose.
  • Derheatmeister
    Derheatmeister Member Posts: 1,581
    Win Nelson ehh?

    Tom how is the support by Baxi USA? AKA Marathon! "We" here in Colorado had very bad experiences with the support of them!

    Sorry,I do not mean to be Negative and like i said before it is not the boilers fault!I Loved the QAA73 and it's endless programming capabilities,But No one can tell me how to make the boiler operate based on outdoor reset so that the circ will turn on when the temps drops to "setpoint" and the Boiler will modulate base on outdoor temp ! that whould be very nice with TRV's if you know what i am talking about.

    The Italians(Baxi Italy) know and do this! but I no speaking si Italiano and therefore over here in the US this is not possible because Marathon has no idea what i am talking about! (Edwin tried somewhat but did not understand /had communication problems and eventually dropped the ball!)

    If you Support Viessmann you maybe understanden sie? Ja?
  • Rod Kotiga
    Rod Kotiga Member Posts: 68


    Whoa there ! I have a 91 Yugo EFI That starts and runs like a TT boiler and the wife loves it ! Also way better than any Munchie we USED to install.

    Rod
This discussion has been closed.

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