W/M Gold Oil \"Burping\"

billtwocase

excellent points Steam. My take on this is that the tech is trying to clean up the flame with more air instead of increasing the pump pressure. The Golds with Becketts running only 100 PSI had a fine line when it came to air adjustment. Just that little bit more would blow the fire away. If it hasn't been serviced yet, probably also time to do that.

Ted_4

W/M Gold Oil \"Burping\"

I installed this W/M Gold Oil 3-section boiler in 1995, and it has been running the current setup since '99: AFG burner,.85 90 degree nozzle and delay oil valve. It has been running well all this time with annual maintenance, and only 2 service calls: for pump and xmfr.

Recently it has been "burping" on start up. When the oil valve opens, the flame lights off immediately, then drops and comes back 1 to 3 times before becoming completely stable. The burping is more severe when the boiler is cold. And yes, it's causing some accelerated sooting.

It seems the AFG is not able to hold the flame in front of the retention head at light-off, which leads me to believe there is excess pressure in the chamber at light-off. But why?

I checked the breeching and flue for blockage - OK; changed the nozzle; and pump pressure is steady at 100 psi. Everything else including draft is normal - and exactly as it has been for almost 10 years.

One clue (maybe): if I open the inspection port, then start the burner, there is no burping - just a puff of exhaust out the port - as you would expect.

Any of you great burner techs out there have some ideas?

scrook_2

Beckett

calls for a 0.85x70B @ 140 psi (1.0 GPH) on that (F3 Head)
(They also list an L1 head version in that boiler w/ 0.85x45B @140 PSI.)

How's electrode adjustment & Z dimension?

billtwocase

burping

Stop feeding it beer Ted. lol. First thing to do is set the pump pressure at 140 PSI, .85 80B nozzle,, check the gun/head setting with a gauge, start off with the side band setting at 6, big band closed, set up with combustion test equipment only. Weil spec'd out Beckett at 100 PSI, Carlin at 140, Riello runs about 150. I don't know why they didn't spec Beckett right from the start, but that's your problem. Higher pump pressure atomizes the oil into smaller droplets, burns cleaner, lights off smoother, and won't float away like it is doing now. Good unit and burner, just needs that tweaking. peace

scrook_2

Beckett

calls for: 0.85x70B @ 140 PSI (1.0 GPH) in the W-M GO-3 w/ F3 head AFG.

W-M lists the boiler at 0.95 GPH input, so not sure why Becket is calling for an 0.85 instead of an 0.80 though.

How's the electrode spacings and Z dimension?

billtwocase

firing rate

He'd be ok with the .85 scrook. Max of .95, i'm sure closer to 1.00 GPH. I personally prefer the 80 degree in these, but 70 will work ok. Seems like these were field tested when they first came out, but big plus over the 66,68 series. peace

Steamhead (in transit)

Some more things to check

Oil feed- excessive vacuum? Air leaks into line?

When you check the pump pressure, is it steady?

What exactly is your draft?

To Learn More About This Professional, Click Here to Visit Their Ad in "Find A Professional"

Ted_4

Thanks for all your help

I appreciate all the posts. This boiler was a brand new design in 1995 (I got the second one in the county) and I know the settings have changed somewhat since then. It came with a 1.00 nozzle @ 100 psi. I downrated it to .85 a couple years later and tried a number of nozzles, but it seemed to work best with a 90 degree. (Flame would not stay on the head with an 80) I never tried raising the pump pressure. Will try that now.

The real question for me is: What changed in the last couple of months to make this burp/hiccupp start happening?

And to answer your questions: Pump pressure steady, vacuum zero, head/electrode settings at spec, draft .03 over fire, combustion numbers normal, stack 385, smoke 0 to trace.

John Starcher_4

I feel you pain, Ted!

I was too lazy to search for it, but I posted a similar experience with a Burnham V8 series a couple months ago.

I had very similar issues - the thing ran great since day one, and then all of a sudden would not stay running. I had to raise pump pressure from 140 to 170 (per Burnham tech support) to fix it. I had the same circumstances as you do with draft, smoke, flue readings, etc. The only problem was the dag-gone thing would not stay running!!!

Since I raised the pressure it has performed flawlessly. Over at Oil tech talk some of the guys were hypothesizing that oil quality is to blame. Who knows?????

Starch

billtwocase

oil quality

Oil quality has alot to do with needing to run higher pump pressure. Firedragon hits the nail on the head when he says exotic fuels. The draft over fire should be no greater than -.02. Adjust your draft regulator, boost the pump pressure, and i'd still recommend the 80 degree solid nozzle, and set up with combustion tester. It will work just fine. Also consider additive for the tank. peace

tommyoil

There was a time....

that that boiler was specd out for a 90 degree nozzle so the 90 may still be the ticket. While I DO care what the Beckett spec book instructs us to do, ultimately my instrumentation dictates my final adjustments as it does for most. Why is your pump vacuum at zero? Gravity fed? If thats the case what vacuum is the pump capable of? Did you actually perform a vacuum test? And what was your method of testing? Is it a series 1 Weil? Also, while your pump may be steady at 100 psi, do you have any range of adjustment? Whats the tank arrangement there? Single pipe or two pipe? Your readings seem "textbook" and using the term zero to trace of smoke no longer applies to present day oil fired equipment. Trace is unacceptable. Whos doing the testing here and with what equipment? What tech in this day and age sets up for a trace of smoke anymore? A refresher course in oil burner 101 to bring the tech up to speed and some proper equipment/instumentation may be the fix here. Sounds like someones dropping the service ball.

billtwocase

trace smoke

I gotta agree Tommy. This burner is not running properly, so it is generating atleast s trace smoke i'll bet. Not acceptable with new equipment. The only unit I run 90 degree nozzles in are mobile home furnces. The 90 degree is not floating in this case only because lack of adequate pump pressue. Wider the spray angle, less likely to float. I still say 80 with 140. peace

tommyoil

No question about your method Bill....

But I have had cases where those model 3's with that specd 90 at 100 psi has been good from the get go. I only switch it up if I have an issue. If the spec is and has been performing with decent results, I'm less likely to stray. Why LOOK for a pile with new shoes on? While I fully endorse your approach with regard to pump pressure, I practice it ONLY when I have an issue or can gain better results performance wise per my instrumentation. While higher pressures certainly appear be the way to go, as we both know, broadstroke efforts dont always generate the same results. Again, I do not dis agree with your approach. Ultimately our instuments will dictate when and where we land anyway. Its good to know who has success with what when your having a hard time in the basement. All of these approaches are just more weapons in the arsenal....and they all work to one degree or another. With so many variables, it tough to generalize. I gotta go burp my burner.

billtwocase

burp

Tommy, don't tell me you're feeding yours beer too lol. peace