steam return problem?

Eric_39

No traps in the cealing.

Eric_39

2 pipe steam ????

I spent the day in a guest house on an estate that had verry little heat from the steam convectors in the outside walls (12 to 14 of them) the free standing rads. were fine and they are on the same feeds and returns (2 pipe steam system). I know it sounds like clogged steam traps but the system doesn't have steam traps, none on the rads, convectors, or on the return main. the only thing we found was a condensate trap down at the end of the supply main ( we opened & cleaned it but that didn't make a diffrence. NOTE : this house is old I would guess it was built in the 20's or 30's and the convectors are built into the plaster wall (thats why I didn't crack a union to see if i could get flow through the convector).
I think the convectors are clogged (God knows when the system was serviced last) Has anyone ever seen a system like this with no steam traps?

Steamhead (in transit)

It's likely an Orifice Vapor system

probably a Trane. I bet you have an air venting problem. That's about all that can block the steam in this system.

Another possibility is that it does have traps, but the traps are in the basement ceiling.

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ttekushan_3

This may be helpful

I think you're on to something there, steamhead. I just did some troubleshooting this week on another Mouat vapor system with little orifice traps and the graduated/calibrated supply valves. Aside from piping issues and new boiler water level issues, the biggest problem is that about two thirds of the Mouat graduated supply valves were replaced with standard units. Those radiators heat up instantly and clear the orifice traps of water and fill the returns with high velocity steam. The return main vent closes and thats it. No heat to the furthest radiators and radiators that still use the graduated valves.

In this case, Eric, you may want to look for manufacturer names on some of the valves or elbow coming out of the radiator. The convectors are most likely cast iron, and if something you'd never guess happened, like a specialty set of valves casually replaced, the convectors may have escaped this indignity due to the hidden nature of the supply valves in cast iron convectors.

This may not be exactly what's happening here but I hope my illustration leads you in the direction of sniffing out unexpected causes of trouble.

On the other hand, it could also be something as simple as someone replacing an return main air vent with a pipe plug or something like that.

-Terry

P.S. Hi Frank [steamhead]-- Speaking of odd systems, it looks like I've got the go ahead to proceed with installing a new nash-jennings vacuum pump on a big old Webster Vacuum system. N/J makes a reasonably priced vacuum unit with controls that can utilize an existing condensate return pump so long as it has mechanical seals. I'll also have to give Gerry Gill a call.

ttekushan_3

This may be helpful

I think you're on to something there, steamhead. I just did some troubleshooting this week on another Mouat vapor system with little orifice traps and the graduated/calibrated supply valves. Aside from piping issues and new boiler water level issues, the biggest problem is that about two thirds of the Mouat graduated supply valves were replaced with standard units. Those radiators heat up instantly and clear the orifice traps of water and fill the returns with high velocity steam. The return main vent closes and thats it. No heat to the furthest radiators and radiators that still use the graduated valves.

Eric, you may want to look for manufacturer names on some of the valves or elbow coming out of the radiator. The convectors are most likely cast iron, and if something you'd never guess happened, like a specialty set of valves casually replaced, the convectors may have escaped this indignity due to the hidden nature of the supply valves in cast iron convectors.

This may not be exactly what's happening here but I hope my illustration leads you in the direction of sniffing out unexpected causes of trouble.

On the other hand, it could also be something as simple as someone replacing an return main air vent with a pipe plug or something like that, as Steamhead suggested.

-Terry

P.S. Hi Frank [steamhead]-- Speaking of odd systems, it looks like I've got the go ahead to proceed with installing a new nash-jennings vacuum pump on a big old Webster Vacuum system. N/J makes a reasonably priced vacuum unit with controls that can utilize an existing condensate return pump so long as it has mechanical seals. I'll also have to give Gerry Gill a call.