Pro press

bb_10

makes the tool, jaws ( 1/2" - 2") ring kits (2" - 4")

If you are doing larger size piping get the XL-C ring kits. The XL will be discontinued sometime in the future.

You could always try to borrow a tool from your local Viega District Manager. If you don’t know who it is, call Viega and they will let you know.

bb

dave_141

pro press

I'm about to jump into the 90's and buy a pro press tool. Which one is best fellas?

bb_10

Rigid

Rigid makes the best Press tool by far. It was designed for the ProPress fittings.

bb

dave_141

Are the jaws Rigid too?

Jim_64

propress is the bomb!

ours goes from 1/2"-4"

and our pressfit for stainless is also excellent

Derheatmeister

Into the 80's per european standards

Some of the Joints that we Pressed back in the 80's are still Leak free Mannesmann /Geberit Mappress and some good Italian Pressable fittings out there,some may be under other names over here...

Zink/ Metall is the way! (It is cheaper that CU, and why use CU if you are not worried about None OX ?)

Radman is taking a liking on Rothenberger and i cannot blame him.

I will make a decision after the ISH depending on the support in the USA

Bob Bona_4

I had

my hands on a Viramax last week. Rotating head, snap in jaw inserts for different pipe sizes, about 1K less than I would expect to pay. Pretty fast action. I thought it was kind of nice.

Only reason I didn't buy was my piggy bank is low right now.

hot_rod

Look at the REMS also

lee_7

We used the Viramax a few weeks ago, loaner from rep, on 4" pipe. It worked great!!! We would still be there, with the small amount of water that kept coming back. 5 story health center, with valves leaking past. They are for another day.

dave_141

I tried Viega heads the other day and it seemed to work great. Swivel head, good balance. Any reason to avoid these?

Radman

Just finished testing 5 different tools to make the jump...

I just finished testing all of the tools readily available in NA. As a control for our decision making process, we started and stayed with Elkhart ExPress fittings throughout the test. We started with the Stanley Virax machine, both the compact and the large tool. It comes in 2 versions, the compact unit for .5-1.0" copper, and the large tool from .5 - 2" copper. The tools seemed well made and durable. The larger machine is far to heavy and bulky for smooth operation (IMHO) and not well suited to smaller pipe diamters or tight spaces. Initially, we had enormous deflection in the joints, as much as 1/2 " in 18". That's a lot of movement. After testing we attributed the deflection to the rapid pressing cycle. More on that later...

Next we tried the Rigid ProPress machine, that runs from .5-1.0" That also is a well built machine, but for everyday use in piping systems below 1.25", it is just too bulky and heavy. This machine is similar to the Virax large machine. Again, pretty cumbersome to use.

Last we tried the Rotheberger Romax Compact and Romax standard press tool. My experience with Rothenberger comes from my Robend electric bending unit and a Rocam expander tool, both of which I use regularly. I love tube bending, and press is a natural progression. The Romax Compact is unbelievably small and light, it blew away the Stanley in size and weight. It also has a rotating head, 350deg. The machine uses its own heads which are easier to swap out than the Virax. The heads easier to handle than the inserts on the Virax machine. The big machine is similar to the other two, so we opted to try the corded model which is far lighter and very well built. The operation switch on the large machine is a bit odd, but functions well and seems second nature once you get the hang of it. Based on the research we did, along with distributors recommendations, for larger fittings corded tools are the way to go. The big Rothenberger machine will use both Rothenberger and Rigid heads, which adds compatibility as a benefit.
For pressing domestic water systems in homes, the Rothenberger compact is the way we are going. You almost have to have 2 tools, the big units are not ideal for small pipe diameters.

Now for the deflection story...
I spoke with the Meister about this issue before we made the jump, and apparantly this can happen with certain machines and fittings. We initially tested the Virax with pipe clamped firmly in strut. Upon pressing, you could actually watch the pipe deflect towards the jaw pivot. After testing the Rigid and the Rothenberger, it seemed that the slower press cycle yeilded consistent and straight presses. The Rothenberger seemed to be the straightest of all, with no deflection at all. Our initial impression of the Virax machine was of it being the "one", however I believe the 4 second press cycle to be a detriment. The Rothenberger pressed in about 6.5 seconds, which is not that bad comparatively.

Now, to comment on O-rings, Skill, and Cost of Fittings...
I never take on anything without a good bit of research. I found that press fittings and sweat fittings of .5"- 1.25" to be comparatively the same in price. In fact, a 1" press tee was actually 15% cheaper at 2 different suppliers than a standard 1" sweat tee. Overall, press fittings averaged NO MORE than 15% more in cost. I'll take 15% on 25% when I can cut labor cost in half when sold at the same price. If you really understand what your P&L and Balance Sheet say, then this is a no-brainer.
If you don't understand those things, then your challenges are far greater than making up 15% on a copper tee. To become enlightened, surf to www.barebonesbiz.com Prepare to be changed.

The O-rings are solid as far as I can tell. We put a 5 year workmanship warranty on all of our projects, so I am not about to stick my neck out for something I don't trust. I have replaced O rings in faucets that are 50+ years old and they weren't even leaking, just being replaced because seats were bad, etc. That argument is short and weak as far as our research has indicated.

And as far as skill goes? Well, if you can't put piping in level and plumb regardless of what you are piping then you are probably not worried about skill and longevity anyway. I think that less than 50% of ALL plumbers and fitters can solder properly anyway. That I am resolute on, ever since taking a Copper Development Association soldering and brazing cert course. Most don't even understand the concepts behind the physics of soldering let alone the proper use of solder and a air/acetylene torch for controlling heat. Before you start ranting and raving, surf on over to www.copper.org and get an education on the subject. I had to rant and rave too when I found out just how wrong I was doing it after 26 years and 3 Masters licenses, so I would expect people to get ruffled. There are many ways join and assemble pipe, and learning new ones is never a bad thing;-)

Bob Bona_4

nice.

Thanks Radman, great post! I'll take a look at the Romax myself.

Denny Reardon_3

ProPress

I Have the REMS Press tool with 1/2 - 1.25 jaws and love it.
I have always use Viega fittings. If i had a leak i just repressed and everything was fine.
However my last job i used Elkhart fittings and had many leaks. some joints i pressed several times.
maybe its me but i will stick with Viega fittings.

Radman

That's some good info...

I have to say that the Elkhart fittings seem pretty low grade when compared to the Viega and Nibco varieties. The Viega fittings are far more precise in forming, and quality. I was pretty torqued when I realized that most of the ExPress tees were actually press adapters soldered into regualr copper tees. That was surely a weak attempt, and the lay lengths of those tees are just enormous. We are definately dumping our remainder stock of the ExPress in favor of Viega & Nibco. Thanks for the feedback, we have yet to have the opportunity to try the Viega fittings on an extended project.

Mike Dunn

Rothenburger

I too have had nothing but good experiences with my Roth press tool. Been using it for three years now. Much more versatile than the Rigid (which I have two of too).

Mike Dunn

[Deleted User]

nibco

Excuse my ignorance, I am still soldering. My supply house just lent me a nibco tool 1/2" to 1". Used it a couple days. Very nice. Thinking about getting one.

Question: Can the propress fittings be used with the nibco jaws? I have had answers from yes to no to the most popular I don't know.

These tools are not big in my area, but I am sold on them. I like the nibco package but I also have another supplier that deals in viega propress.

I would like to have multiple choices in local supply houses for the fittings.

Unknown

Mike- Good question! I'm wondering about jaws too! (not the shark movie!

Do you have to have specific set of jaws for a specific brand of fitting?

Thanks for all the information on the different tools. Very informative!

- Rod

Evil lution

Rems Vs. Rigid

I have worked for Paul Pollets out on the Left Coast for almost 3 years now. We have both tools. They both work very well. We have never had any problems with the tools failing or the fitting failing.
We us both the ProPress jaws and the Viega jaws. What's really nice is that Viega Multicore brass fittings/ rings work excellent with the Wirsbo/Uponor tubing. No MORE HAND TOOL!

BE WARNED!!!!!
When using the tool you have to take into account that the TOOL needs to fit in the space where you are pressing. That does take some getting use too.

The problem is that you have to pay attention to what's been pressed and what hasn't. OOPS! I made that mistake once. What is great is that if you didn't press the fitting you don't have to drain down the system. Put the tool on the fitting and pull the trigger. DONE!
Good luck in you choice of tools. With PROPRESS you can't go wrong.

bb_10

Nibco tools

Mike:

The Nibco tool will press Viega fittings under 2" only. Nibco has its tool for 2 1/2" - 4" sizes that can't be used with any other fitting.

bb

[Deleted User]

thanks

Thanks.

Another question...will I be covered in the event of a fitting failure if I use the nibco tool on propress fittings? Just trying to cover me arse....

Thanks again.

bb_10

Failure

Mike:

Viega warranties the fitting. They do not tell you which tool to use. However, they do recommend using the Rigid tool.

I don't think you will have any leaks. Just install the fittings according to the directions and you will be fine.

Make sure you ream and debur the pipe before putting the fitting on the pipe.

bb

[Deleted User]

and be careful

not to press too close to a soldered joint if the occasion arises; it can crack the solder joint/cause a leak